Discussion:
Traditional beer claims comeback as tastes change.
(too old to reply)
ba ba booie
2004-08-04 16:29:46 UTC
Permalink
Traditional beer claims comeback as tastes change.


By Jeremy Lovell
LONDON (Reuters) - Traditional beer drinkers are changing in substance,
style and shape.

=A0Disappearing fast are the hairy, heavy-bellied beer-swillers of
yesteryear, their place being taken by young urban professional men and
women more normally associated with wine and working out.

One-third of the 45,000 real ale enthusiasts expected to attend this
year's annual Great British Beer Festival at London's Olympia run by the
beer purists Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) are likely to be women.

"CAMRA is often seen as sandals, beer-bellies and beards. But that is
not true today," the organization's chief executive Mike Benner told
Reuters on the opening night. "The truth has changed. The image,
unfortunately, has not."

That does not mean they will hold back. Over the five days of the event,
people will sink some 200,000 pints of beer.
And it is not just in Britain, that sees itself as the guardian of
traditional brewing, that real ales are making a comeback against
mass-produced lagers.

Even in the United States, where a handful of giant brewers like
Anheuser-Busch have dominated the beer market for decades, the taste for
distinctive real ales is rising.

"Demand for cask-conditioned beer is small but it is growing," Jonathan
Tuttle, U.S. representative of the Bieres Sans Frontieres (BSF)
organization told Reuters.

"I guess the demand is mainly from young professionals and it is the
micro brewers that are driving the change," he added.
BSF groups small brewers from the United States, Africa, Asia and
Australia as they move from one beer festival to another touting their
wares and sampling the competition.

Tuttle said he too had noticed a distinct slimming down of the classic
beer drinkers' profile -- including his own -- and attributed the change
in part to maturity and in part to a greater health consciousness among
consumers of all ages.

Across Europe too the demand for beers with a traditional taste is
growing even as the overall market for beer stagnates.
The European Beer Consumers Union (EBCU) boasts members in Britain, the
Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Finland,
Poland, Austria and Italy, and anticipates that the Czech Republic and
Latvia will also soon sign up.

"Our membership is growing -- mainly among people in their early 20s,"
EBCU representative Richard Larkin said. "But these are not binge
drinkers. These are people who know what they want -- and that is good
food and drink."


bbb wrote:
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.


.
.
.
Have you checked these sites out today?
http://www.jambase.com
http://www.jambands.com
http://www.jambase.com/festivals
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?day=3Dtoday&dispall
.

Find out where your favorite band is playing.
http://www.pollstar.com/news/viewlist.cgi?ListID=3D682
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 16:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ba ba booie
One-third of the 45,000 real ale enthusiasts expected to attend this
year's annual Great British Beer Festival at London's Olympia run by the
beer purists Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) are likely to be women.
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.

Peace,
Neil X.
WV Head
2004-08-04 16:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by ba ba booie
One-third of the 45,000 real ale enthusiasts expected to attend this
year's annual Great British Beer Festival at London's Olympia run by the
beer purists Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) are likely to be women.
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
I was going to say 'British Beer? Bwahahahahaha!!! I had some British
Beer tested, they said my horse had diabetes.'
cedar
2004-08-04 17:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by WV Head
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
I was going to say 'British Beer? Bwahahahahaha!!! I had some British
Beer tested, they said my horse had diabetes.'
synapse meltdown:
#&^#%FRITZ&&&BRRRR<><>ZZZZFRZZZZZ(*^%%%$

this...does...not... compute....

#&^#%FRITZ&&&BRRRR<><>ZZZZFRZZZZZ(*^%%%$

disparage...beverages...of....mother..country...of....ale...and...stout...

#&^#%FRITZ&&&BRRRR<><>ZZZZFRZZZZZ(*^%%%$

??????huh???????

TJ
DGDevin
2004-08-04 17:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.

Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 18:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by DGDevin
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
15 years ago, you would have been right, but I don't know any beer drinkers
today that haven't tried myriad microbrews.
Post by DGDevin
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.

http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html

Peace,
Neil X.
DG
2004-08-04 18:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
15 years ago, you would have been right, but I don't know any beer drinkers
today that haven't tried myriad microbrews.
Post by DGDevin
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter? How about an
India Pale Ale?

Undercarbonated is fine with me. I don't like the burps.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html
The biggest problme with US mass market beer is their usage of corn
sugar in the brewing process.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 18:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by DG
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter?
American bitters or ESBs can be very hoppy. British bitter is, by its style
definition, little hoppier than Budweiser. And by it's style definition, a
British bitter is 20-40% less alcoholic than a Bud.
Post by DG
How about an India Pale Ale?
American IPAs are intended to be served cold, and are seldom cask
conditioned. They don't qualify as "real ale".
Post by DG
Undercarbonated is fine with me. I don't like the burps.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html
The biggest problme with US mass market beer is their usage of corn
sugar in the brewing process.
Here you are talking about brewers like Bud and Miller. Rice is another
common adjunct added by brewers. Rolling Rock adds rice instead of corn,
for example. The purpose of adding adjuncts is to increase the simple sugar
content (thereby increasing the final alcohol content after fermentation)
without increasing the body or flavor of the beer. They might as well just
add a few cups of sugar.....

Peace,
Neil X.
DG
2004-08-04 18:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter?
American bitters or ESBs can be very hoppy. British bitter is, by its style
definition, little hoppier than Budweiser. And by it's style definition, a
British bitter is 20-40% less alcoholic than a Bud.
If you need the alcohol, drink more or get a shot.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
How about an India Pale Ale?
American IPAs are intended to be served cold, and are seldom cask
conditioned. They don't qualify as "real ale".
Then don't drink American IPAs.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
Undercarbonated is fine with me. I don't like the burps.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html
The biggest problme with US mass market beer is their usage of corn
sugar in the brewing process.
Here you are talking about brewers like Bud and Miller. Rice is another
common adjunct added by brewers. Rolling Rock adds rice instead of corn,
for example. The purpose of adding adjuncts is to increase the simple sugar
content (thereby increasing the final alcohol content after fermentation)
without increasing the body or flavor of the beer. They might as well just
add a few cups of sugar.....
Right...


The German Purity Law of 1516 is fantastic.
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html

Only water, barley, hops and yeast may be in their beer.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 18:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by DG
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter?
American bitters or ESBs can be very hoppy. British bitter is, by its style
definition, little hoppier than Budweiser. And by it's style definition, a
British bitter is 20-40% less alcoholic than a Bud.
If you need the alcohol, drink more or get a shot.
It has little to do with alcohol content per se. Weaker beers have less
interesting flavor profiles due to the abbreviated fermentation they
undergo. It's the interaction of yeast with its nutrients that provides
much of the complexity of flavor in beer.
Post by DG
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
How about an India Pale Ale?
American IPAs are intended to be served cold, and are seldom cask
conditioned. They don't qualify as "real ale".
Then don't drink American IPAs.
Give me an American IPA over a warm, flat British one any day.
Post by DG
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
Undercarbonated is fine with me. I don't like the burps.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html
The biggest problme with US mass market beer is their usage of corn
sugar in the brewing process.
Here you are talking about brewers like Bud and Miller. Rice is another
common adjunct added by brewers. Rolling Rock adds rice instead of corn,
for example. The purpose of adding adjuncts is to increase the simple sugar
content (thereby increasing the final alcohol content after fermentation)
without increasing the body or flavor of the beer. They might as well just
add a few cups of sugar.....
Right...
The German Purity Law of 1516 is fantastic.
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html
Only water, barley, hops and yeast may be in their beer.
Actually, almost every brewery in Germany technically violates the
Reinheitsgebot. If you read it, you will find that the only authorized
ingredients are barley, hops and water. There is no mention of yeast. This
is because in the 1500s, it wasn't understood that yeast was part of the
process. Wild yeast that grew on the malted barley while it was being
stored before use is what was responsible for fermentation. There was no
yeast added. Of course, now that sanitation is understood, yeast must be
added in order to initiate fermentation. So the Reinheitsgebot is routinely
violated by every brewer in Germany.

But the best thing about the Reinheitsgebot is that it eliminates things
like blueberry beer and watermelon ale. <shudder> OTOH, we wouldn't have
the delightful collection of Belgian beers if the Reinheitsgebot were
followed everywhere.

Peace,
Neil X.
DG
2004-08-04 18:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
The German Purity Law of 1516 is fantastic.
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html
Only water, barley, hops and yeast may be in their beer.
Actually, almost every brewery in Germany technically violates the
Reinheitsgebot. If you read it, you will find that the only authorized
ingredients are barley, hops and water. There is no mention of yeast. This
is because in the 1500s, it wasn't understood that yeast was part of the
process. Wild yeast that grew on the malted barley while it was being
stored before use is what was responsible for fermentation. There was no
yeast added. Of course, now that sanitation is understood, yeast must be
added in order to initiate fermentation. So the Reinheitsgebot is routinely
violated by every brewer in Germany.
I guess it's decriminalization.
Post by Neil Krueger
But the best thing about the Reinheitsgebot is that it eliminates things
like blueberry beer and watermelon ale. <shudder> OTOH, we wouldn't have
the delightful collection of Belgian beers if the Reinheitsgebot were
followed everywhere.
I became accustomed to Belgian Ales when a relative worked for the
state department and was in Brussels. When he was given the
assignment, I bought cases of Chimay. They wrecked us but were so
tasty going down.
Brad Greer
2004-08-05 04:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter?
American bitters or ESBs can be very hoppy. British bitter is, by its style
definition, little hoppier than Budweiser. And by it's style definition, a
British bitter is 20-40% less alcoholic than a Bud.
If you need the alcohol, drink more or get a shot.
It has little to do with alcohol content per se. Weaker beers have less
interesting flavor profiles due to the abbreviated fermentation they
undergo. It's the interaction of yeast with its nutrients that provides
much of the complexity of flavor in beer.
I strongly disagree. My first trip to England I stayed at a pub with
4 cask ales, ranging from 3.2 percent to 4.5 percent alcohol. My
favorite, in terms of flavor, was around 3.5 percent. The yeast
interacts primarily with the malt, hops are unaffected. The kind of
hops, the amount of hops and the time they are used in the boil have a
tremendous impact on flavor. Why does Sierra Nevada taste like it
does? Because of the Cascade hops. Nothing to do with the amount of
alcohol.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
The German Purity Law of 1516 is fantastic.
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ReinHeit.html
Only water, barley, hops and yeast may be in their beer.
Actually, almost every brewery in Germany technically violates the
Reinheitsgebot. If you read it, you will find that the only authorized
ingredients are barley, hops and water. There is no mention of yeast. This
is because in the 1500s, it wasn't understood that yeast was part of the
process. Wild yeast that grew on the malted barley while it was being
stored before use is what was responsible for fermentation. There was no
yeast added. Of course, now that sanitation is understood, yeast must be
added in order to initiate fermentation. So the Reinheitsgebot is routinely
violated by every brewer in Germany.
But the best thing about the Reinheitsgebot is that it eliminates things
like blueberry beer and watermelon ale. <shudder> OTOH, we wouldn't have
the delightful collection of Belgian beers if the Reinheitsgebot were
followed everywhere.
Nor would we have German Weisse beer (which I personally am not a fan
of, but many like). Reinheitsgebot was really an attempt by the
German nobility to corner the market on Weisse, not an attempt to
define what beer should really be. In any event, while great beers
can be made with only barley, hops, water and yeast adjuncts used
properly can be a lot of fun. My wife really enjoys raspberry ales, I
enjoy various holiday ales in the winter, wheat is of course always
popular, etc. But watermelon?
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 16:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
I strongly disagree. My first trip to England I stayed at a pub with
4 cask ales, ranging from 3.2 percent to 4.5 percent alcohol. My
favorite, in terms of flavor, was around 3.5 percent. The yeast
interacts primarily with the malt, hops are unaffected. The kind of
hops, the amount of hops and the time they are used in the boil have a
tremendous impact on flavor. Why does Sierra Nevada taste like it
does? Because of the Cascade hops. Nothing to do with the amount of
alcohol.
If all you taste in Sierra Nevada is Cascade hops, you're missing at least
half of the story. Any brewer can dump a lot of Cascade into their
fermenter and generate a brew dripping with Cascade flavor. Hell, out here
in New England, Long Trail Brewing Co. dry hops its IPA with so much Cascade
that you can't taste anything else in the beer. That is not what makes
Sierra Nevada so good. The subtle malt signature--we've always called it
"Big Malt Bang"--is a flavor usually observed only in exquisitely brewed
Czech and German pilsners, Belgians, and some of the better American
microbrews. Sierra Nevada has it in spades, and it's the result of careful
mashing that results in the presence of a high concentration of dextrins
(tri-saccharides) in the mash. Dextrins are not usable by yeast, yeast can
only digest mono- and di-saccharides, so dextrins survive fermentation to
give body and richness to the beer. You simply can't produce enough
dextrins to give the wonderful rich mouth feel of a Sierra Nevada or Pilsner
Urquell with a barley concentration that results in a 3.5% abv beer. You
have to break that 4.5% barrier to produce it. Pilsner Urquell is the
lowest alcohol concentration brew (it is reported to be 4.6-4.8% abv) that
I've encountered that has Big Malt Bang. Sam Adams lager is another
American brew that has it, as does Anchor Steam. Sam and Anchor are around
5% abv, and Sierra Nevada is 5.6%. That about the right area--an original
gravity around 1.055-1.065, to generate sufficient dextrins for full malt
flavor. FWIW, Samuel Smith Pale Ale has one of the most pleasing malt
signatures on the planet (as does their Winter Warmer), so some British
brewers do "get it". I don't know what the alcohol content of Sam Smith it,
but I bet it's at least 5%.
Post by Brad Greer
Post by Neil Krueger
Actually, almost every brewery in Germany technically violates the
Reinheitsgebot. If you read it, you will find that the only authorized
ingredients are barley, hops and water. There is no mention of yeast. This
is because in the 1500s, it wasn't understood that yeast was part of the
process. Wild yeast that grew on the malted barley while it was being
stored before use is what was responsible for fermentation. There was no
yeast added. Of course, now that sanitation is understood, yeast must be
added in order to initiate fermentation. So the Reinheitsgebot is routinely
violated by every brewer in Germany.
But the best thing about the Reinheitsgebot is that it eliminates things
like blueberry beer and watermelon ale. <shudder> OTOH, we wouldn't have
the delightful collection of Belgian beers if the Reinheitsgebot were
followed everywhere.
Nor would we have German Weisse beer (which I personally am not a fan
of, but many like). Reinheitsgebot was really an attempt by the
German nobility to corner the market on Weisse, not an attempt to
define what beer should really be. In any event, while great beers
can be made with only barley, hops, water and yeast adjuncts used
properly can be a lot of fun. My wife really enjoys raspberry ales, I
enjoy various holiday ales in the winter, wheat is of course always
popular, etc. But watermelon?
The best brewpub here in Boston is the Boston Beer Works, with branches
adjacent to Fenway Park and the Fleet Center. They usually have 15-16 brews
on tap, of which 4-5 are always completely delightful. But regular staples
of their selection are watermelon and blueberry ale. I was commenting on it
to one of their brewers recently, and he told me that they sell nearly twice
as much blueberry ale as any other flavor of beer they sell. I couldn't
believe it, but then I looked around the bar, and well more than half of the
pint glasses sitting on it had blueberries floating in them. So even
microbrew and brewpub fans are fully capable of having really questionable
taste.....

Peace,
Neil X.
DG
2004-08-05 16:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Brad Greer
I strongly disagree. My first trip to England I stayed at a pub with
4 cask ales, ranging from 3.2 percent to 4.5 percent alcohol. My
favorite, in terms of flavor, was around 3.5 percent. The yeast
interacts primarily with the malt, hops are unaffected. The kind of
hops, the amount of hops and the time they are used in the boil have a
tremendous impact on flavor. Why does Sierra Nevada taste like it
does? Because of the Cascade hops. Nothing to do with the amount of
alcohol.
If all you taste in Sierra Nevada is Cascade hops, you're missing at least
half of the story. Any brewer can dump a lot of Cascade into their
fermenter and generate a brew dripping with Cascade flavor. Hell, out here
in New England, Long Trail Brewing Co. dry hops its IPA with so much Cascade
that you can't taste anything else in the beer. That is not what makes
Sierra Nevada so good.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale sucks. Overwhelmingly hopped. What's the
point?
Post by Neil Krueger
The subtle malt signature--we've always called it
"Big Malt Bang"--is a flavor usually observed only in exquisitely brewed
Czech and German pilsners, Belgians, and some of the better American
microbrews. Sierra Nevada has it in spades, and it's the result of careful
mashing that results in the presence of a high concentration of dextrins
(tri-saccharides) in the mash. Dextrins are not usable by yeast, yeast can
only digest mono- and di-saccharides, so dextrins survive fermentation to
give body and richness to the beer. You simply can't produce enough
dextrins to give the wonderful rich mouth feel of a Sierra Nevada or Pilsner
Urquell with a barley concentration that results in a 3.5% abv beer. You
have to break that 4.5% barrier to produce it. Pilsner Urquell is the
lowest alcohol concentration brew (it is reported to be 4.6-4.8% abv) that
I've encountered that has Big Malt Bang. Sam Adams lager is another
American brew that has it, as does Anchor Steam. Sam and Anchor are around
5% abv, and Sierra Nevada is 5.6%. That about the right area--an original
gravity around 1.055-1.065, to generate sufficient dextrins for full malt
flavor. FWIW, Samuel Smith Pale Ale has one of the most pleasing malt
signatures on the planet (as does their Winter Warmer), so some British
brewers do "get it". I don't know what the alcohol content of Sam Smith it,
but I bet it's at least 5%.
Post by Brad Greer
Post by Neil Krueger
Actually, almost every brewery in Germany technically violates the
Reinheitsgebot. If you read it, you will find that the only authorized
ingredients are barley, hops and water. There is no mention of yeast. This
is because in the 1500s, it wasn't understood that yeast was part of the
process. Wild yeast that grew on the malted barley while it was being
stored before use is what was responsible for fermentation. There was no
yeast added. Of course, now that sanitation is understood, yeast must be
added in order to initiate fermentation. So the Reinheitsgebot is routinely
violated by every brewer in Germany.
But the best thing about the Reinheitsgebot is that it eliminates things
like blueberry beer and watermelon ale. <shudder> OTOH, we wouldn't have
the delightful collection of Belgian beers if the Reinheitsgebot were
followed everywhere.
Nor would we have German Weisse beer (which I personally am not a fan
of, but many like). Reinheitsgebot was really an attempt by the
German nobility to corner the market on Weisse, not an attempt to
define what beer should really be. In any event, while great beers
can be made with only barley, hops, water and yeast adjuncts used
properly can be a lot of fun. My wife really enjoys raspberry ales, I
enjoy various holiday ales in the winter, wheat is of course always
popular, etc. But watermelon?
The best brewpub here in Boston is the Boston Beer Works, with branches
adjacent to Fenway Park and the Fleet Center. They usually have 15-16 brews
on tap, of which 4-5 are always completely delightful. But regular staples
of their selection are watermelon and blueberry ale. I was commenting on it
to one of their brewers recently, and he told me that they sell nearly twice
as much blueberry ale as any other flavor of beer they sell. I couldn't
believe it, but then I looked around the bar, and well more than half of the
pint glasses sitting on it had blueberries floating in them. So even
microbrew and brewpub fans are fully capable of having really questionable
taste.....
No doubt. Most fruit beers suck.
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 18:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by DG
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Brad Greer
I strongly disagree. My first trip to England I stayed at a pub with
4 cask ales, ranging from 3.2 percent to 4.5 percent alcohol. My
favorite, in terms of flavor, was around 3.5 percent. The yeast
interacts primarily with the malt, hops are unaffected. The kind of
hops, the amount of hops and the time they are used in the boil have a
tremendous impact on flavor. Why does Sierra Nevada taste like it
does? Because of the Cascade hops. Nothing to do with the amount of
alcohol.
If all you taste in Sierra Nevada is Cascade hops, you're missing at least
half of the story. Any brewer can dump a lot of Cascade into their
fermenter and generate a brew dripping with Cascade flavor. Hell, out here
in New England, Long Trail Brewing Co. dry hops its IPA with so much Cascade
that you can't taste anything else in the beer. That is not what makes
Sierra Nevada so good.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale sucks. Overwhelmingly hopped. What's the
point?
Holy fuck!!! Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is consistently rated in brew
competitions as a perfect beer, so much so that it is usually used as the
standard that all other American Pale Ales match up to... And it is nowhere
near overwhelmingly hopped...
DG
2004-08-05 18:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by DG
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale sucks. Overwhelmingly hopped. What's the
point?
Holy fuck!!! Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is consistently rated in brew
competitions as a perfect beer, so much so that it is usually used as the
standard that all other American Pale Ales match up to... And it is nowhere
near overwhelmingly hopped...
If I want hops like that I'll eat the ones out front.
Steve McHenry
2004-08-05 16:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
If all you taste in Sierra Nevada is Cascade hops, you're missing at least
half of the story. Any brewer can dump a lot of Cascade into their
fermenter and generate a brew dripping with Cascade flavor. Hell, out here
in New England, Long Trail Brewing Co. dry hops its IPA with so much Cascade
that you can't taste anything else in the beer. That is not what makes
Sierra Nevada so good. The subtle malt signature--we've always called it
"Big Malt Bang"--is a flavor usually observed only in exquisitely brewed
Czech and German pilsners, Belgians, and some of the better American
microbrews. Sierra Nevada has it in spades, and it's the result of careful
mashing that results in the presence of a high concentration of dextrins
(tri-saccharides) in the mash. Dextrins are not usable by yeast, yeast can
only digest mono- and di-saccharides, so dextrins survive fermentation to
give body and richness to the beer. You simply can't produce enough
dextrins to give the wonderful rich mouth feel of a Sierra Nevada or Pilsner
Urquell with a barley concentration that results in a 3.5% abv beer. You
have to break that 4.5% barrier to produce it. Pilsner Urquell is the
lowest alcohol concentration brew (it is reported to be 4.6-4.8% abv) that
I've encountered that has Big Malt Bang. Sam Adams lager is another
American brew that has it, as does Anchor Steam. Sam and Anchor are around
5% abv, and Sierra Nevada is 5.6%. That about the right area--an original
gravity around 1.055-1.065, to generate sufficient dextrins for full malt
flavor. FWIW, Samuel Smith Pale Ale has one of the most pleasing malt
signatures on the planet (as does their Winter Warmer), so some British
brewers do "get it". I don't know what the alcohol content of Sam Smith it,
but I bet it's at least 5%.
Keeerist on a crutch!

Man, only Neil could take something as fun as drinking beer and turn
it into a chem class!


s
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 17:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve McHenry
Post by Neil Krueger
If all you taste in Sierra Nevada is Cascade hops, you're missing at least
half of the story. Any brewer can dump a lot of Cascade into their
fermenter and generate a brew dripping with Cascade flavor. Hell, out here
in New England, Long Trail Brewing Co. dry hops its IPA with so much Cascade
that you can't taste anything else in the beer. That is not what makes
Sierra Nevada so good. The subtle malt signature--we've always called it
"Big Malt Bang"--is a flavor usually observed only in exquisitely brewed
Czech and German pilsners, Belgians, and some of the better American
microbrews. Sierra Nevada has it in spades, and it's the result of careful
mashing that results in the presence of a high concentration of dextrins
(tri-saccharides) in the mash. Dextrins are not usable by yeast, yeast can
only digest mono- and di-saccharides, so dextrins survive fermentation to
give body and richness to the beer. You simply can't produce enough
dextrins to give the wonderful rich mouth feel of a Sierra Nevada or Pilsner
Urquell with a barley concentration that results in a 3.5% abv beer. You
have to break that 4.5% barrier to produce it. Pilsner Urquell is the
lowest alcohol concentration brew (it is reported to be 4.6-4.8% abv) that
I've encountered that has Big Malt Bang. Sam Adams lager is another
American brew that has it, as does Anchor Steam. Sam and Anchor are around
5% abv, and Sierra Nevada is 5.6%. That about the right area--an original
gravity around 1.055-1.065, to generate sufficient dextrins for full malt
flavor. FWIW, Samuel Smith Pale Ale has one of the most pleasing malt
signatures on the planet (as does their Winter Warmer), so some British
brewers do "get it". I don't know what the alcohol content of Sam Smith it,
but I bet it's at least 5%.
Keeerist on a crutch!
Man, only Neil could take something as fun as drinking beer and turn
it into a chem class!
None of the information above is news to anyone who brews at home.
Homebrewers know all that stuff and much more......

Peace,
Neil X.
Brad Greer
2004-08-05 04:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
CAMRA is fantastic. I attended a US Real Ale festival at Goose Island
years ago. The warmer temperature highlights the flavor. Nothing
weak about their beer. Underhopped? Ever had a bitter?
American bitters or ESBs can be very hoppy. British bitter is, by its style
definition, little hoppier than Budweiser. And by it's style definition, a
British bitter is 20-40% less alcoholic than a Bud.
There are variations of bitter - ESB (extra special bitter) is a
British style, hoppier than regular bitter (which, in turn, is hoppier
than brown ale). The generally lower alcohol content is because
bitteres are considered "session" beers - you go to the local pub and
drink a pints of bitter until closing time every night.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DG
How about an India Pale Ale?
American IPAs are intended to be served cold, and are seldom cask
conditioned. They don't qualify as "real ale".
Most beer in America is sold in bottles, or else out of the familiar
keg with artificial carbonation. There's nothing wrong with that,
although it doesn't fit the CAMRA definition of real ale. The whole
CAMRA thing is as much about preserving a lifestyle as it is about the
beer, although they focus on the beer.

American craft brewers have taken traditional styles, such as ESB and
IPA, and done their own thing to them. That's great, IMO. Beer
shouldn't be this static thing, the styles that were defined a couple
of hundred years ago shouldn't be the end of it. American Pale Ale
(as defined by Sierra Nevada Pale Ale) is a unique style unto itself.
Hoppier than the British version, generally stronger alcohol and
usually served in the bottle or carbonated keg. It's a great style,
and SNPA is probably my most-consumed beer. But when I get the
opportunity to enjoy a properly served Real Ale I will do it.
DGDevin
2004-08-05 05:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
But when I get the
opportunity to enjoy a properly served Real Ale I will do it.
Well said.
JC Martin
2004-08-04 18:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
15 years ago, you would have been right, but I don't know any beer drinkers
today that haven't tried myriad microbrews.
Post by DGDevin
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!

-JC
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-04 20:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
LP
2004-08-04 23:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........

LP
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-04 23:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........
Hehe... Gladly! Following microbrews around the country has started to
replace the Dead experience a bit for me... ;-)
Brad Greer
2004-08-05 04:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........
I was hoping someone would dispute the San Diego claim. Northern
California, Oregon and Washington are certainly among the best areas
for brewing. Of course, I live on the east coast, which isn't as
good. However, if you get a chance to try out any Victory ales and
lagers (brewed in PA) do so. Hop Devil is excellent in particular.
LP
2004-08-05 14:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by LP
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........
I was hoping someone would dispute the San Diego claim. Northern
California, Oregon and Washington are certainly among the best areas
for brewing. Of course, I live on the east coast, which isn't as
good. However, if you get a chance to try out any Victory ales and
lagers (brewed in PA) do so. Hop Devil is excellent in particular.
Hop Devil is yummy. If you love that type of brew, you'll be in bliss
around here - Hops are plentiful!

LP
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 18:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by LP
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New World
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........
I was hoping someone would dispute the San Diego claim. Northern
California, Oregon and Washington are certainly among the best areas
for brewing. Of course, I live on the east coast, which isn't as
good. However, if you get a chance to try out any Victory ales and
lagers (brewed in PA) do so. Hop Devil is excellent in particular.
Of course, in the most recent GABF, the San Diego area took home more medals
than all of those areas, with fewer breweries....
JC Martin
2004-08-05 15:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by JC Martin
Screw that! We make the best ale out here on the west coast. New
World
Post by JC Martin
all the way baby!
-JC
Yup! I think at this point, the best beer environment in the world right now
may be in San Diego County. Hell, at this point, most of San Diego is making
Belgian Ales as good or better than the Belgians are making them...
Take a little excursion up this way boys, to Seattle and Portland to
find the REAL mecca of West Coast brewing........
I think the entire west coast kicks butt though. We have some great
breweries up here in northern cal. But yeah, Washington and Oregon kick
rears too.

Peas,
JC
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-04 20:25:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
Well, that is not really true, in that Germans and Czechs both make great
beers that are at their most flavorful when not absolutely cold. A slightly
warmer beer (of any stripe) will be more flavorful... About the only time a
beer absolutely needs to be ice cold is when it is crap.. The colder it is
the less flavor will shine through...

My standard procedure is to let a beer site for the length of one whole
previous beer before drinking it...
Brad Greer
2004-08-05 04:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
15 years ago, you would have been right, but I don't know any beer drinkers
today that haven't tried myriad microbrews.
Sadly, I know many people who still continue to drink swill. There's
a reason why BudMillerCoors sells so much beer, and that's that most
people don't know any better.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
Neil, have you ever been to England and had a properly pulled cask
ale? Maybe you have, and if that's the case you are entitled to your
opinion. British "real ales" are properly served at "cellar
temperature" and if you've ever been in a British cellar that's hardly
warm (not exactly ice-cold, but not warm). Hoppiness really depends
on the particular brewer, I've had ales that were fantastically hopped
and some that were lacking. Carbonation is an issue - "real ale",
served from a cask, is naturally carbonated unlike the more familiar
keg beers, which are injected with CO2. They are not as "fizzy" as
keg beers, but if you've had a properly pulled cask ale with a thick
head of foam that sticks to the side of the glass you'll realize they
are carbonated.

The taste of "real ale" is an aquired one, to a degree. However, top
fermented beer (i.e., "ale") is properly served at a warmer
temperature than bottom fermented beer (lager). The carbonation thing
of cask ale takes a little getting used to, but a good ale served
properly is a thing of beauty.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Of course, if you prefer to think that Bud really is the king of beers,
well, cool, leaves more real beer for the rest of us.
Real beer? Have you ever read about the "Real Ale Campaign"? Bunch of
pompous Anglophiles telling everyone that if they don't make beer like the
Brits do, they aren't making "real" beer.
And the Germans have their rules too (only barley malt, hops, water
and yeast). We are extremely lucky in the US to have an incredible
selection of beer styles available. "Real Ales" for those who like
them, Czech pilsners for those who prefer that. Abby-style beers.
Barley Wine Ales (properly served on the warm side, btw)., Etc. You
can pick a style you prefer, or you can be a beer slut and drink many
different styles. If real ale isn't for you (and assuming you've had
it served properly, most places in the US botch it up) then let it go.
Just don't drink Bud!
LP
2004-08-05 15:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
The taste of "real ale" is an aquired one, to a degree. However, top
fermented beer (i.e., "ale") is properly served at a warmer
temperature than bottom fermented beer (lager). The carbonation thing
of cask ale takes a little getting used to, but a good ale served
properly is a thing of beauty.
Cask ale rocks (but you have to come to the northwest to get great
ones).

LP
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 18:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by Brad Greer
The taste of "real ale" is an aquired one, to a degree. However, top
fermented beer (i.e., "ale") is properly served at a warmer
temperature than bottom fermented beer (lager). The carbonation thing
of cask ale takes a little getting used to, but a good ale served
properly is a thing of beauty.
Cask ale rocks (but you have to come to the northwest to get great
ones).
Bah, there's plenty of great cask ales in the San Diego area...
kurt
2004-08-05 18:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by DGDevin
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
Peace,
Neil X.
Most Americans have never tasted real beer, being accustomed to a weak,
almost clear beer-substitute manufactured with industrial efficiency and
served near freezing so any flavor it might have is almost undetectable.
15 years ago, you would have been right, but I don't know any beer drinkers
today that haven't tried myriad microbrews.
Post by DGDevin
Fortunately domestic "micro-brews" inspired by the great beers of Britain,
Germany, Czechoslovakia etc. have helped to re-educate many Americans, they
are just so good that anyone who experiences their range of character and
complexity is never again going to be satisfied with the watery virgin's pee
that the major U.S. breweries pump out.
The Germans and Czechs understand that beer ought to be both flavorful and
cold. And American microbrewers also understand this. It's only the Brits,
and their fanclub at CAMRA, that thinks good beer should be warm, weak,
underhopped and uncarbonated.
I am going to have to disagree with you a bit. From my perspective there are
4 styles of beer - British, German, Belgian, and American. American style
being a mix of the other three. British beer is by style what you describe
as not liking. Ales can be like that. Me, nothing even comes close to
Belgian beer. That's the epitome!

Kurt
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-04 20:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by ba ba booie
One-third of the 45,000 real ale enthusiasts expected to attend this
year's annual Great British Beer Festival at London's Olympia run by the
beer purists Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) are likely to be women.
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I love a good cold beer and I love a good warm real ale... There's nothing
disgusting about it, just a matter of taste...
Ken Fortenberry
2004-08-05 18:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.

If you want to see a yuppie homebrew beer snob backpedal at the
speed of sound offer this challenge, brew up your best pilsner
lager and we'll do a blind taste test with your effort and a
Budweiser from the St. Louis brewery. To a man they'll hem and
haw and prattle on about walk-in refrigerators but I have yet to
meet A SINGLE ONE who will take that challenge.

Some of you don't get Bud from St. Louis. That's a pity and I've
had some swill brewed in Florida and some from the LaBatts brewery
in Canada that was labelled Budweiser but was damn near donkey
piss, HOWEVER the Budweiser brewed in St. Louis, Missouri is a
damn good pilsner lager and any friggin' yuppie homebrew beer
snob who tells you different is a nitwit.
--
Ken Fortenberry
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 18:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
If you want to see a yuppie homebrew beer snob backpedal at the
speed of sound offer this challenge, brew up your best pilsner
lager and we'll do a blind taste test with your effort and a
Budweiser from the St. Louis brewery. To a man they'll hem and
haw and prattle on about walk-in refrigerators but I have yet to
meet A SINGLE ONE who will take that challenge.
Some of you don't get Bud from St. Louis. That's a pity and I've
had some swill brewed in Florida and some from the LaBatts brewery
in Canada that was labelled Budweiser but was damn near donkey
piss, HOWEVER the Budweiser brewed in St. Louis, Missouri is a
damn good pilsner lager and any friggin' yuppie homebrew beer
snob who tells you different is a nitwit.
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.

Peace,
Neil X.
Ken Fortenberry
2004-08-05 18:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement.
<snip>
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
A patronizing and condescending smugness appears to be
de riguer among most yuppie homebrew beer snobs.

I like Pilsner Urquell and Budwar the other "original"
Czech pilsner lager but isn't it possible that they are
all good beers ? Is it absolutely necessary to demean
all the millions of folks who like Budweiser to show
your "superior" taste in beer ?
--
Ken Fortenberry
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 19:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement.
<snip>
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
A patronizing and condescending smugness appears to be
de riguer among most yuppie homebrew beer snobs.
I like Pilsner Urquell and Budwar the other "original"
Czech pilsner lager but isn't it possible that they are
all good beers ? Is it absolutely necessary to demean
all the millions of folks who like Budweiser to show
your "superior" taste in beer ?
The perception of "demeaning" is in your own mind. Why do you feel so
inferior? Do you have self-esteem issues?

Peace,
Neil X.
Ken Fortenberry
2004-08-05 20:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement.
<snip>
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
A patronizing and condescending smugness appears to be
de riguer among most yuppie homebrew beer snobs.
I like Pilsner Urquell and Budwar the other "original"
Czech pilsner lager but isn't it possible that they are
all good beers ? Is it absolutely necessary to demean
all the millions of folks who like Budweiser to show
your "superior" taste in beer ?
The perception of "demeaning" is in your own mind. Why do you feel so
inferior? Do you have self-esteem issues?
You were the yuppie homebrew beer snob who proclaimed that most
Americans had never had a "real beer." As if only the teeming
masses had savoir faire and sophistication they would all pinch
their noses and refuse to drink Budweiser and drink only boutique
bullshit.

That's crap. Budweiser is good beer. Millions of people drink it
and enjoy it. You can say it's a style of beer you don't like,
you can say it's not your taste in beer, but you cannot say it's
not good beer or that it's not "real beer." Budweiser is "real beer"
and it's a damn good beer, anybody who tells you different is a
friggin' nitwit. I'm drinking one right now.

Here's to ya.

I went on a fishing trip to Minnesota a couple of weeks ago and
couldn't get one of my fishing buddies to drink a Bud, no how,
no way. He knew better than to demean Bud or Bud drinkers and
chose his words well. He claimed he just couldn't drink pilsners.
I got us some Schell Zommerfest and we were both happy. Pretty
good stuff, I recommend it if you're into Krolsch style ales.
--
Ken Fortenberry
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 20:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement.
<snip>
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
A patronizing and condescending smugness appears to be
de riguer among most yuppie homebrew beer snobs.
I like Pilsner Urquell and Budwar the other "original"
Czech pilsner lager but isn't it possible that they are
all good beers ? Is it absolutely necessary to demean
all the millions of folks who like Budweiser to show
your "superior" taste in beer ?
The perception of "demeaning" is in your own mind. Why do you feel so
inferior? Do you have self-esteem issues?
You were the yuppie homebrew beer snob who proclaimed that most
Americans had never had a "real beer."
You, sir, have a serious reading comprehension problem. I was the one who
decried the condescension and arrogance of the "Real Ale" campaign, and
disputed the suggestion that most Americans had never tried "real beer" with
the statement that every beer drinker I knew had tried myriad microbrews.
Post by Ken Fortenberry
As if only the teeming
masses had savoir faire and sophistication they would all pinch
their noses and refuse to drink Budweiser and drink only boutique
bullshit.
Man, you really do have self-esteem issues.
Post by Ken Fortenberry
That's crap. Budweiser is good beer. Millions of people drink it
and enjoy it. You can say it's a style of beer you don't like,
you can say it's not your taste in beer, but you cannot say it's
not good beer or that it's not "real beer." Budweiser is "real beer"
and it's a damn good beer, anybody who tells you different is a
friggin' nitwit. I'm drinking one right now.
If you like beer with no taste, more power to you. I like water with no
taste, so I can relate.

Billions of people have eaten Big Macs, but that doesn't mean it's a high
quality burger.
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Here's to ya.
I went on a fishing trip to Minnesota a couple of weeks ago and
couldn't get one of my fishing buddies to drink a Bud, no how,
no way. He knew better than to demean Bud or Bud drinkers and
chose his words well.
Guess what? I've said exactly nothing to demean Budweiser drinkers. Get a
grip. You've invented an enemy to argue with, put words in the straw man's
mouth, and then started arguing with the words you put there. You could be
your own newsgroup.
Post by Ken Fortenberry
He claimed he just couldn't drink pilsners.
I got us some Schell Zommerfest and we were both happy. Pretty
good stuff, I recommend it if you're into Krolsch style ales.
I think you mean "Kolsch", i.e., beer in the style of Cologne.

www.beerhunter.com/styles/kolsch.html

Peace,
Neil X.
cedar
2004-08-05 20:51:21 UTC
Permalink
<snip beer brawl>


I hear that microbrew drinkers are 5 times more likely to own a cat.

TJ
Ken Fortenberry
2004-08-05 20:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
... Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
You were the yuppie homebrew beer snob who proclaimed that most
Americans had never had a "real beer."
You, sir, have a serious reading comprehension problem.
No, actually I have an attribution problem. I've put so many
right wing nitwit so-called deadheads into my kill file that
I have a hard time keeping track of who said what when a thread
gets as long as this one. Just consider that you actually are a
yuppie homebrew beer snob who's taking one for the team. ;-)
--
Ken Fortenberry
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 21:12:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
... Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
You were the yuppie homebrew beer snob who proclaimed that most
Americans had never had a "real beer."
You, sir, have a serious reading comprehension problem.
No, actually I have an attribution problem. I've put so many
right wing nitwit so-called deadheads into my kill file that
I have a hard time keeping track of who said what when a thread
gets as long as this one. Just consider that you actually are a
yuppie homebrew beer snob who's taking one for the team. ;-)
Well then....<brushing dust and dirt off of clothes>....that's better, as
long as the one I get to take is a Pilsner Urquell.

Peace,
Neil X.
Richard Morris
2004-08-05 19:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. <snip>
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
A patronizing and condescending smugness appears to be
de riguer among most yuppie homebrew beer snobs.
I like Pilsner Urquell and Budwar the other "original"
Czech pilsner lager but isn't it possible that they are
all good beers ? Is it absolutely necessary to demean
all the millions of folks who like Budweiser to show
your "superior" taste in beer ?
Wow ... the only person that I have seen demeaning anyone here in this
particular thread branch is you, by making personal attacks against
people who have stated their opinions about beer.

Come on, man ... this is about an alcoholic beverage! One of the
reasons there are so many of them is that there are so many different
tastes out there. Yer certainly entitled to your preferences ... other
folks can have theirs.

Now if this thread was about wine, that would be different! ;)

R.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 18:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
If you want to see a yuppie homebrew beer snob backpedal at the
speed of sound offer this challenge, brew up your best pilsner
lager and we'll do a blind taste test with your effort and a
Budweiser from the St. Louis brewery. To a man they'll hem and
haw and prattle on about walk-in refrigerators but I have yet to
meet A SINGLE ONE who will take that challenge.
Some of you don't get Bud from St. Louis. That's a pity and I've
had some swill brewed in Florida and some from the LaBatts brewery
in Canada that was labelled Budweiser but was damn near donkey
piss, HOWEVER the Budweiser brewed in St. Louis, Missouri is a
damn good pilsner lager and any friggin' yuppie homebrew beer
snob who tells you different is a nitwit.
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is absolutely
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a Pilsner
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
Well, a Pilsner Urquell is a different style than an American pilsner...
American pilsners use rice and corn and other random shit... It's the hot
dog of the beer world... European pilsners actually have the capacity to be
a good beer with actual flavor...
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 18:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
DG
2004-08-05 18:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Andrew Murawa
2004-08-05 19:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
That's what water and lemonade is for... If I want a beer, I want some some
flavor, and drinking ice cold beer, even if it is the best beer in the
world, severely detracts from the ability to taste any distinct flavors...
Not that I would want to taste a Budweiser anyway...
DG
2004-08-05 21:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
That's what water and lemonade is for...
Water? Fish piss in that.
Post by Andrew Murawa
If I want a beer, I want some some
flavor, and drinking ice cold beer, even if it is the best beer in the
world, severely detracts from the ability to taste any distinct flavors...
I'd rather drink than taste. Ice cold Heinekins are just fine with
me.
Post by Andrew Murawa
Not that I would want to taste a Budweiser anyway...
I've never met a beer I didn't love.
JimK
2004-08-05 19:25:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..

JimK
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 20:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..
I recently encountered a product called "Shasta Diet Fudge Cream Soda". I
assure you, there is no ice in our solar system cold enough to make this
product palatable.....

Peace,
Neil X.
JimK
2004-08-06 02:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by JimK
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..
I recently encountered a product called "Shasta Diet Fudge Cream Soda". I
assure you, there is no ice in our solar system cold enough to make this
product palatable.....
Peace,
Neil X.
Diet Fudge.....now there's an oxymoron for you.

And I do have to add one thing in defense of ice cold Bud. The one
time it's pleasurable is during the 15 minutes immediately following a
softball game or after walking 18 holes on a very hot day.

JimK
Bill Moore
2004-08-06 17:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by JimK
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like
to drink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by JimK
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..
I recently encountered a product called "Shasta Diet Fudge Cream Soda". I
assure you, there is no ice in our solar system cold enough to make this
product palatable.....
Peace,
Neil X.
Diet Fudge.....now there's an oxymoron for you.
And I do have to add one thing in defense of ice cold Bud. The one
time it's pleasurable is during the 15 minutes immediately following a
softball game or after walking 18 holes on a very hot day.
Hear hear to the occasional cold Bud!

Bill (who drinks mostly the yuppie stuff)
Jperdue4
2004-08-06 17:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Moore
Hear hear to the occasional cold Bud!
Bill (who drinks mostly the yuppie stuff)
My fave mass produced beer is Coors...
We have so many local breweries around here that i mostly drink it rather thatn
the mass stuff but i did just grab a 12 of Coors at the grocery store to go
with my bbq chicken/cornbread/pinto beans/cd burning and cataloging party
tonight!!...Hey i only had 10 bucks and needed more than a 6'er tonight...But i
will not drink beer i cans......Unless its a really hot day or im on acid
(which hasnt happened in a few years and desperatly needs to..''will trade
shows for a stray!''..:)...) and thats ALL thats available...
:)--~
JonP


"That's just what i need...
a good woman to kick
my butt now and then"
Bob Dylan

DG
2004-08-05 21:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
Post by DG
Post by Andrew Murawa
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to drink
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
And that style sucks ass...
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..
Try an ice cold Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
Signothetimes53
2004-08-06 00:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Fortenberry
For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
LOL!

That's akin to suggesting that Wonder Bread is one of the finest breads OF ITS
STYLE baked in the world. It may be true, but it still ain't saying much.

Here's the blunt truth about Budweiser: they brew it with rice as an
ingredient. Technically and legally, it doesn't even qualify as beer under the
German purity law. And the reason why they originally selected rice as an
ingredient to make Budweiser was to cut brewing costs.

Finally, Mr. Fortenberry, anyone in a blind taste test who can't tell the
difference between Budweiser and Pilsner Urquell simply has no taste buds.
JimK
2004-08-04 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.
If you haven't done so, try the other Sam.......Samuel Smith. Blows
Adams out of the water. Try the Oatmeal Stout, or the Pale Ale, or the
Nut Brown....or any of them, for that matter.

JimK
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 17:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
<snip>
I love a good cold beer.
Maybe 2.
I still love Samuel Adams beer.
If you haven't done so, try the other Sam.......Samuel Smith. Blows
Adams out of the water. Try the Oatmeal Stout, or the Pale Ale, or the
Nut Brown....or any of them, for that matter.
But don't try them if they have been sitting out in open in the liquor
store. Samuel Smith comes in clear bottles--it is almost always skunky
unless you find a sealed case, open it, and take your 4-pack from it. FWIW,
I greatly prefer the Imperial Stout to the Oatmeal.

Then of course there is the little matter that a case of Sam Adams lager is
$19, and a 4-pack of Sam Smith is $9.....

Peace,
Neil X.
MDZamboni
2004-08-04 21:07:23 UTC
Permalink
neil:<<Then of course there is the little matter that a case of Sam Adams lager
is
$19, and a 4-pack of Sam Smith is $9...>>

Wow - you have some nice beer prices! On sale, a case of SA will be a bout
twenty bucks here, but regularly it's more like twenty five or thirty...

I prefer Sierra Nevada over Sam Adams, and as for Sam Smith, I'd rather
supplement my beer with California microbrews from up north, like Mendocino
brewing's IPA and Eye of the Hawk - some strong, very hoppy brews. They run
six or seven bucks a six pack for the stronger beers, and about five or so a
sixer for the 5.5-6.5 % range.

my .02 ounces
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 23:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by MDZamboni
neil:<<Then of course there is the little matter that a case of Sam Adams lager
is
$19, and a 4-pack of Sam Smith is $9...>>
Wow - you have some nice beer prices! On sale, a case of SA will be a bout
twenty bucks here, but regularly it's more like twenty five or thirty...
I prefer Sierra Nevada over Sam Adams, and as for Sam Smith, I'd rather
supplement my beer with California microbrews from up north, like Mendocino
brewing's IPA and Eye of the Hawk - some strong, very hoppy brews. They run
six or seven bucks a six pack for the stronger beers, and about five or so a
sixer for the 5.5-6.5 % range.
I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam, Red Seal Ale,
anything from Anderson Valley, those are all better than Sam Lager. But
that stuff is very expensive in MA. You can't get a case of Anchor for less
than $36 here. So mostly I satisfy myself with Pilsner Urquell, which is
simply the finest beer in the world, and has been available for $19 a case
here for a few years now.....

I think all the Mendocino Brewing Co. stuff we get here has turned before it
makes it out here. It's been absolutely terrible in bottles, but tastes
delightful if you get it on tap in a bar.

Peace,
Neil X.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 01:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by MDZamboni
neil:<<Then of course there is the little matter that a case of Sam Adams lager
is
$19, and a 4-pack of Sam Smith is $9...>>
Wow - you have some nice beer prices! On sale, a case of SA will be
a bout twenty bucks here, but regularly it's more like twenty five or
thirty...
I prefer Sierra Nevada over Sam Adams, and as for Sam Smith, I'd
rather supplement my beer with California microbrews from up north,
like Mendocino brewing's IPA and Eye of the Hawk - some strong, very
hoppy brews. They run six or seven bucks a six pack for the stronger
beers, and about five or so a sixer for the 5.5-6.5 % range.
I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam, Red Seal
Ale, anything from Anderson Valley, those are all better than Sam
Lager. But that stuff is very expensive in MA. You can't get a case
of Anchor for less than $36 here. So mostly I satisfy myself with
Pilsner Urquell, which is simply the finest beer in the world, and has
been available for $19 a case here for a few years now.....
I think all the Mendocino Brewing Co. stuff we get here has turned
before it makes it out here. It's been absolutely terrible in
bottles, but tastes delightful if you get it on tap in a bar.
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 03:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is good,
but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch any of the beers made
by NE's Big Three.

The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that is
delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and Hampshire
Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord Brewing Company,
their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's best single beer, and
their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat for hopheads. Wachusett
Brewing Co. has several good beers, none spectacular, but none bad. I used
to really love anything made by Catamount, but since they got bought out by
Harpoon, Catamount has gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes
some fine ales, but their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of
the brews made by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and
Golden Ale. The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.

HTH,
Neil X.
Cal O'Chortus
2004-08-05 03:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is good,
but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch any of the beers made
by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that is
delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and Hampshire
Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord Brewing Company,
their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's best single beer, and
their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat for hopheads. Wachusett
Brewing Co. has several good beers, none spectacular, but none bad. I used
to really love anything made by Catamount, but since they got bought out by
Harpoon, Catamount has gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes
some fine ales, but their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of
the brews made by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and
Golden Ale. The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
HTH,
Neil X.
You fucking drunk!!
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 04:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cal O'Chortus
You fucking drunk!!
Actually, I find sobriety is better for fucking. The ladies are so much
more appreciative when they can remember how much fun they had.....

Peace,
Neil X.
Tim Donohoe
2004-08-05 04:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Cal O'Chortus
You fucking drunk!!
Actually, I find sobriety is better for fucking. The ladies are so much
more appreciative when they can remember how much fun they had.....
Peace,
Neil X.
I never pictured you as someone who would say "the ladies"
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 04:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Donohoe
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Cal O'Chortus
You fucking drunk!!
Actually, I find sobriety is better for fucking. The ladies are so much
more appreciative when they can remember how much fun they had.....
Peace,
Neil X.
I never pictured you as someone who would say "the ladies"
I'm not, and I don't.

HTH,
Neil X.
Chris
2004-08-05 04:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Cal O'Chortus
You fucking drunk!!
Actually, I find sobriety is better for fucking. The ladies are so much
more appreciative when they can remember how much fun they had.....
Peace,
Neil X.
so you're sayign you're a mimbo?
nantuckets finest
2004-08-05 13:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Date: 8/5/2004 12:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by Cal O'Chortus
You fucking drunk!!
Actually, I find sobriety is better for fucking. The ladies are so much
more appreciative when they can remember how much fun they had.....
Plus all those draft beer and knockwurst burps and farts are a real mood
killer.

Mark
nantuckets finest
2004-08-05 12:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Date: 8/4/2004 11:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is good,
but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch any of the beers made
by NE's Big Three.
Have you tried Newport Storm yet? Very small brewery in Middletown, RI, I like
it.

Mark
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 16:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by nantuckets finest
Date: 8/4/2004 11:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is good,
but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch any of the beers made
by NE's Big Three.
Have you tried Newport Storm yet? Very small brewery in Middletown, RI, I
like it.
Yeah, I maybe should have mentioned that one. I think it's a little bland,
it could use a modicum more hops, but I love the maltiness.

Peace,
Neil x.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 12:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England
area. i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely
familiar with the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the
little bit I've had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is
good, but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams
Lager, Magic Hat Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't
touch any of the beers made by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that
is delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and
Hampshire Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord
Brewing Company, their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's
best single beer, and their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat
for hopheads. Wachusett Brewing Co. has several good beers, none
spectacular, but none bad. I used to really love anything made by
Catamount, but since they got bought out by Harpoon, Catamount has
gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes some fine ales, but
their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of the brews made
by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and Golden Ale.
The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
Thanks a bunch. I still standby the statement that Magic Hat has 2 good
beers: Blind Faith and Heart of Darkness. Couple you might have
forgotten that I've had. Otter Creek from VT makes a fantastic Pale ale
and Porter. Long Trail's entire line is pretty solid. And Shipyard in
ME usually has some great beers but I haven't had it in awhile. If
you're a little farther south (NYC to Deleware) I really reccomend
Dogfish. They're 60 minute IPA is one of the best beers I've ever had.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 16:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England
area. i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely
familiar with the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the
little bit I've had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is
good, but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams
Lager, Magic Hat Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't
touch any of the beers made by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that
is delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and
Hampshire Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord
Brewing Company, their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's
best single beer, and their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat
for hopheads. Wachusett Brewing Co. has several good beers, none
spectacular, but none bad. I used to really love anything made by
Catamount, but since they got bought out by Harpoon, Catamount has
gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes some fine ales, but
their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of the brews made
by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and Golden Ale.
The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
Thanks a bunch. I still standby the statement that Magic Hat has 2 good
beers: Blind Faith and Heart of Darkness. Couple you might have
forgotten that I've had. Otter Creek from VT makes a fantastic Pale ale
and Porter. Long Trail's entire line is pretty solid. And Shipyard in
ME usually has some great beers but I haven't had it in awhile. If
you're a little farther south (NYC to Deleware) I really reccomend
Dogfish. They're 60 minute IPA is one of the best beers I've ever had.
Yeah, I really like Otter Creek, they are really good, forgot to mention
them. Blind Faith is OK. But I disagree with you about Shipyard (BTW, they
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body, it's
like Bud with hops added.

As for Dogfish, ye Gods, man!! Everything I've ever tasted of theirs was
unspeakably foul. They are the brewing company my group of friends hold as
as the canonical example of small not always translating to good. Horrific
swill, they should be arrested for Fermenter Abuse.....

Peace,
Neil X.
nantuckets finest
2004-08-05 16:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
But I disagree with you about Shipyard (BTW, they
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body, it's
like Bud with hops added.
I think you mean Redhook, I'm fairly certain that Shipyard is still locally
owned by some Maineahs.

Mark
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 17:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by nantuckets finest
Post by Neil Krueger
But I disagree with you about Shipyard (BTW, they
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body, it's
like Bud with hops added.
I think you mean Redhook, I'm fairly certain that Shipyard is still locally
owned by some Maineahs.
Actually, on further research, Shipyard bought out Miller's interest in
2000, and is now completely independent again:

http://www.epinions.com/fddk-review-7B13-922FB4-394AE623-prod1

But their beer is still bodyless and thin.....

Peace,
Neil X.
nantuckets finest
2004-08-05 18:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Date: 8/5/2004 1:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by nantuckets finest
Post by Neil Krueger
But I disagree with you about Shipyard (BTW, they
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body, it's
like Bud with hops added.
I think you mean Redhook, I'm fairly certain that Shipyard is still locally
owned by some Maineahs.
Actually, on further research, Shipyard bought out Miller's interest in
http://www.epinions.com/fddk-review-7B13-922FB4-394AE623-prod1
They bought themselves BACK from Miller, now that's an interesting move...
But their beer is still bodyless and thin.....
Yes, but their Mary-Kate Olsen lager is to die for.

Mark
kurt
2004-08-06 16:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England
area. i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely
familiar with the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the
little bit I've had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is
good, but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams
Lager, Magic Hat Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't
touch any of the beers made by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that
is delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and
Hampshire Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord
Brewing Company, their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's
best single beer, and their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat
for hopheads. Wachusett Brewing Co. has several good beers, none
spectacular, but none bad. I used to really love anything made by
Catamount, but since they got bought out by Harpoon, Catamount has
gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes some fine ales, but
their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of the brews made
by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and Golden Ale.
The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
Thanks a bunch. I still standby the statement that Magic Hat has 2 good
beers: Blind Faith and Heart of Darkness. Couple you might have
forgotten that I've had. Otter Creek from VT makes a fantastic Pale ale
and Porter. Long Trail's entire line is pretty solid. And Shipyard in
ME usually has some great beers but I haven't had it in awhile. If
you're a little farther south (NYC to Deleware) I really reccomend
Dogfish. They're 60 minute IPA is one of the best beers I've ever had.
The 90 minute IPA is even better. It's an "imperial" IPA.

Kurt
Neil Krueger
2004-08-06 16:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by kurt
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England
area. i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely
familiar with the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the
little bit I've had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is
good, but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams
Lager, Magic Hat Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't
touch any of the beers made by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that
is delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale, Porter and
Hampshire Special Winter Ale are all delicious. I also love Concord
Brewing Company, their Pale Ale is magnificent, maybe New England's
best single beer, and their IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat
for hopheads. Wachusett Brewing Co. has several good beers, none
spectacular, but none bad. I used to really love anything made by
Catamount, but since they got bought out by Harpoon, Catamount has
gone downhill. Paper City Brewing Co. also makes some fine ales, but
their stuff is harder to find. I really like most of the brews made
by Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and Golden Ale.
The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
Thanks a bunch. I still standby the statement that Magic Hat has 2 good
beers: Blind Faith and Heart of Darkness. Couple you might have
forgotten that I've had. Otter Creek from VT makes a fantastic Pale ale
and Porter. Long Trail's entire line is pretty solid. And Shipyard in
ME usually has some great beers but I haven't had it in awhile. If
you're a little farther south (NYC to Deleware) I really reccomend
Dogfish. They're 60 minute IPA is one of the best beers I've ever had.
The 90 minute IPA is even better. It's an "imperial" IPA.
Kurt
You people are crazy. I was at a beer tasting convention in Boston last
winter with a bunch of friends--6 of us, total, and only one of us could
tolerate more than a single sip of the 60 and 90 minute IPAs from Dogfish.
Truly gruesome--we were unanimous in voting Dogfish the worst brewery we had
ever had the misfortune to encounter. That nasty characteristic Dogfish
flavor, it isn't supposed to be in beer.....we figured they were actually
using dogfish in their ferments.

Peace,
Neil X.
m***@theworld.com
2004-08-06 16:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
You people are crazy. I was at a beer tasting convention in Boston last
winter with a bunch of friends--6 of us, total, and only one of us could
tolerate more than a single sip of the 60 and 90 minute IPAs from Dogfish.
Truly gruesome--we were unanimous in voting Dogfish the worst brewery we had
ever had the misfortune to encounter. That nasty characteristic Dogfish
flavor, it isn't supposed to be in beer.....we figured they were actually
using dogfish in their ferments.
I had a Dogfish (don't recall precisely which one) at Redbones last year
and sent it back after a few sips as I didn't like it at all. Didn't
make the connection that they might be listing the ingredients front
and center on the label.

Haven't seen anyone mention Ipswich as a Mass. brew. Back in the day
their growlers used to remind me of my own homebrew. Throwing back
a growler or two with your buddies will surely give you a little kick
in the pants.

Matt
--
Note:

To reply to me, remove any hyphen ("-") from my user name, if present.
The Iron Muffin
2004-08-05 16:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the
New England area. i'm familiar with the major micros,
but not only vaguely familiar with the smaller ones. I really
like Rock Art based on the little bit I've had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure.
The biggest ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon,
each have one product that is good, but most of their stuff
is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch
any of the beers made by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product
line that is delicious, is Geary's of Maine. Their Pale Ale,
Porter and Hampshire Special Winter Ale are all delicious.
I also love Concord Brewing Company, their Pale Ale is
magnificent, maybe New England's best single beer, and their
IPA is extraordinarily hoppy, a real treat for hopheads.
Wachusett Brewing Co. has several good beers, none
spectacular, but none bad. I used to really love anything
made by Catamount, but since they got bought out by
Harpoon, Catamount has gone downhill.
He's Right, You Know. Catamount used to be a real treat. Their Amber Ale
was a thing of beauty.
Post by Neil Krueger
Paper City Brewing Co. also makes some fine ales, but their
stuff is harder to find. I really like most of the brews made by
Buzzards Bay Brewing Co., especially their Pale Ale and
Golden Ale. The BB Lager is a bit tasteless.
Out here in Western Massachusetts, the Berkshire Brewing Company is the
cream of the crop. I recommend the Steel Rail Pale Ale.

Then again, I'm not big on beer these days (due to a mild hops allergy).
Caveat Emptor.
--
The Iron Muffin

DEAD FREAKS UNITE

Who are you? Where are you?

How are you?
kurt
2004-08-05 18:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Speaking of Micros, what's your reccomendation for the New England area.
i'm familiar with the major micros, but not only vaguely familiar with
the smaller ones. I really like Rock Art based on the little bit I've
had.
Well, the best New England breweries are pretty obscure. The biggest
ones--Magic Hat, Sam Adams and Harpoon, each have one product that is good,
but most of their stuff is mediocre. Other than Sam Adams Lager, Magic Hat
Heart of Darkness Stout and Harpoon IPA, I won't touch any of the beers made
by NE's Big Three.
The best brewery, IMO, in terms of having an entire product line that is
delicious, is Geary's of Maine.
I agree. What about Gritty McDuff's (?) out of Maine. I have had some of
their "big" beers. Great stuff. You ever go to Redbones in Sumerville?
They got a good tap list.

Kurt
MDZamboni
2004-08-05 07:14:28 UTC
Permalink
neil<<I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam>>

It's funny we still call them "microbrews."

In 1990, Sierra may have been a micro...eh? Today it's in every market in
California - that's hardly micro! Ba Ba Booie's original article was probably
becoming outdated in the early nineties - old story, new headline.

Thank God for decent tasting American beer, that's all I can say. I'll never
drink Bud or Coors or Michelob or Miller or any of that type of swill again.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 12:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MDZamboni
neil<<I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam>>
It's funny we still call them "microbrews."
In 1990, Sierra may have been a micro...eh? Today it's in every market
in California -
Heck, almost every market in the country.
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 16:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by MDZamboni
neil<<I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam>>
It's funny we still call them "microbrews."
In 1990, Sierra may have been a micro...eh? Today it's in every market in
California - that's hardly micro! Ba Ba Booie's original article was probably
becoming outdated in the early nineties - old story, new headline.
Well, maybe we need a new word for it then. All of the brewers that fall
under the umbrella phrase "microbrew" still comprise under 5% of the
American market--Bud, Miller, Coors have 95% of the market. So they may not
be "micro" anymore, but they still are "mini"......
Post by MDZamboni
Thank God for decent tasting American beer, that's all I can say.
Amen to that.

Peace,
Neil X.
LP
2004-08-05 22:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by MDZamboni
neil<<I really like the CA microbrews--Sierra Nevada, Anchor Steam>>
It's funny we still call them "microbrews."
In 1990, Sierra may have been a micro...eh? Today it's in every market in
California - that's hardly micro! Ba Ba Booie's original article was probably
becoming outdated in the early nineties - old story, new headline.
Well, maybe we need a new word for it then. All of the brewers that fall
under the umbrella phrase "microbrew" still comprise under 5% of the
American market--Bud, Miller, Coors have 95% of the market. So they may not
be "micro" anymore, but they still are "mini"......
Some have taken to using the term "craft beers" to replace the "micro"
description that no longer applies to brewers like Sierra.

LP
mb
2004-08-05 05:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimK
If you haven't done so, try the other Sam...
I'll have a Samuel Jackson...

"YES, THEY DESERVED TO DIE AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!"
ba ba booie
2004-08-04 18:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Traditional beer claims comeback as tastes change.


***@comcast.net
(Neil=A0Krueger) wrote:
Then of course there is the little matter that a case of Sam Adams lager
is $19, and a 4-pack of Sam Smith is $9.....


bbb writes:
The $19.00 a case is the part that gets me every time. How can I pass
that up when I see Heinekin going for $18.00 a case or Bud going for
$16.00 for a 30 pack.
A 30 pack (snickering)

I wonder what a case of Samuel Smiths goes for? $36.00?

Would it be worth it to lay out the extra cash? I mean I am just renting
it.


The thing is, I HATE four packs.
Just when the taste of the beer gets good and the buzz starts to settle
in, the fucking pack is finished. Not good!

Yea, yea, I know, get 2 four packs. That is like $18.00 for two 4 packs.
Shit for another $1.00 you can get a case of Samuel Adams. I kinda like
the later deal.

Whose bright idea was it to make a four pack?


A cold and thirsty booie........

.
.
.
Have you checked these sites out today?
http://www.jambase.com
http://www.jambands.com
http://www.jambase.com/festivals
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?day=3Dtoday&dispall
.

Find out where your favorite band is playing.
http://www.pollstar.com/news/viewlist.cgi?ListID=3D682
Brad Greer
2004-08-05 04:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ba ba booie
The thing is, I HATE four packs.
Just when the taste of the beer gets good and the buzz starts to settle
in, the fucking pack is finished. Not good!
Actually, I had a friend who felt the four pack was the perfect size
(leaving price out of it for now). Four beers is a good amount to
drink to catch a light buzz but not feel bad the next day. Having a
friend over for a few? Buy two four packs. Of course, once you get
up to three friends the math no longer makes a difference, and above
three friends might as well just get a case, maybe a quarter ounce,
and kick back for the night...
Greg Sasso
2004-08-04 18:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
A well-conditioned, correctly served English cask ale has some natural
carbonation and is not warm but cellar temperature (usually around
45-50 farenheit). A correctly served London Pride from a Fuller's pub
in London tastes about as fine as beer can possibly taste.
cedar
2004-08-04 19:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
A well-conditioned, correctly served English cask ale has some natural
carbonation and is not warm but cellar temperature (usually around
45-50 farenheit). A correctly served London Pride from a Fuller's pub
in London tastes about as fine as beer can possibly taste.
HRYK. Anyone who thinks something from a British cellar is warm, well,
hasn't been in a British cellar. They may get a bit tepid in the
summer, but nine months out of the year it's OK by my taste.

Dickey Peppercock, where are you?

TJ
Neil Krueger
2004-08-04 19:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
A well-conditioned, correctly served English cask ale has some natural
carbonation and is not warm but cellar temperature (usually around
45-50 farenheit). A correctly served London Pride from a Fuller's pub
in London tastes about as fine as beer can possibly taste.
If you follow the link I posted from the Real Ale folks, they say that cask
beer must be served at 50-57 degrees. That's just way, way too warm for me.

Peace,
Neil X.
mminter
2004-08-04 22:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
A well-conditioned, correctly served English cask ale has some natural
carbonation and is not warm but cellar temperature (usually around
45-50 farenheit). A correctly served London Pride from a Fuller's pub
in London tastes about as fine as beer can possibly taste.
If you follow the link I posted from the Real Ale folks, they say that cask
beer must be served at 50-57 degrees. That's just way, way too warm for me.
Peace,
Neil X.
Yes, but I hope everyone is aware that your taste buds are affected by
temperature. The colder the temp the less sensitivity of your buds. So
if you really want to "taste" ales, then drinking it at 50-57 is best.
Otherwise, it's just another uninteresting alcohol delivery system which
is what Budmilloors does quite cheaply. :-)

BTW, visit rec.crafts.brewing for more enlightened discussions of home
brewing.

Michael
Greg Sasso
2004-08-04 19:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like
to
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
drink
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
A well-conditioned, correctly served English cask ale has some
natural
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
carbonation and is not warm but cellar temperature (usually around
45-50 farenheit). A correctly served London Pride from a Fuller's
pub
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
in London tastes about as fine as beer can possibly taste.
If you follow the link I posted from the Real Ale folks, they say
that cask
Post by Neil Krueger
beer must be served at 50-57 degrees. That's just way, way too warm
for me.
Some pubs would post the temperatures they store the beers at. It
differed by style of beer, but Pale Ales (of which London Pride is one)
were definitely in the 45 - 50 range. Stouts were served more in that
50 - 57 (thought I don't remember ever seeing one as high as 57 in the
5 months I was there).

Of course this is all if the pub and bartender are serving the beer
correctly. Many a pub screw this up. Served correctly, cask ales
taste wonderful, served incorrectly they taste awful.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 16:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by LP
Post by Brad Greer
The taste of "real ale" is an aquired one, to a degree. However,
top
Post by LP
Post by Brad Greer
fermented beer (i.e., "ale") is properly served at a warmer
temperature than bottom fermented beer (lager). The carbonation
thing
Post by LP
Post by Brad Greer
of cask ale takes a little getting used to, but a good ale served
properly is a thing of beauty.
Cask ale rocks (but you have to come to the northwest to get great
ones).
Or England.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 17:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Yeah, I really like Otter Creek, they are really good, forgot to
mention
Post by Neil Krueger
them. Blind Faith is OK. But I disagree with you about Shipyard
(BTW, they
Post by Neil Krueger
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body,
it's
Post by Neil Krueger
like Bud with hops added.
As for Dogfish, ye Gods, man!! Everything I've ever tasted of theirs
was
Post by Neil Krueger
unspeakably foul. They are the brewing company my group of friends
hold as
Post by Neil Krueger
as the canonical example of small not always translating to good.
Horrific
Post by Neil Krueger
swill, they should be arrested for Fermenter Abuse.....
I'm pretty sure Shipyard is local, and the beer certainly has body.
Maybe some confusion somewhere. I'm quite surprised by the Dogfish
hatred. I really enjoyed it. You sure you're not thinking of Flying
Dog (I think)?
Neil Krueger
2004-08-05 17:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Neil Krueger
Yeah, I really like Otter Creek, they are really good, forgot to
mention
Post by Neil Krueger
them. Blind Faith is OK. But I disagree with you about Shipyard
(BTW, they
Post by Neil Krueger
are owned by Bud or Miller, I forget which), their beer has no body,
it's
Post by Neil Krueger
like Bud with hops added.
As for Dogfish, ye Gods, man!! Everything I've ever tasted of theirs
was
Post by Neil Krueger
unspeakably foul. They are the brewing company my group of friends
hold as
Post by Neil Krueger
as the canonical example of small not always translating to good.
Horrific
Post by Neil Krueger
swill, they should be arrested for Fermenter Abuse.....
I'm pretty sure Shipyard is local, and the beer certainly has body.
Maybe some confusion somewhere.
It used to be owned by Miller, but was bought out by local interests in
2000.
Post by Neil Krueger
I'm quite surprised by the Dogfish
hatred. I really enjoyed it. You sure you're not thinking of Flying
Dog (I think)?
Definitely not. Flying Dog has all the Stedman drawings on the label (the
guy who illustrates Hunter Thompson books.) Dogfish is bilgewater in a
bottle at $10 a sixpack.

Peace,
Neil X.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 17:53:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
I'm pretty sure Shipyard is local, and the beer certainly has body.
Maybe some confusion somewhere.
It used to be owned by Miller, but was bought out by local interests
in
Post by Neil Krueger
2000.
Heh, I'm not surprised I didn't know that. I certainly didn't know
what good beer was in 2000.
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
I'm quite surprised by the Dogfish
hatred. I really enjoyed it. You sure you're not thinking of
Flying
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Greg Sasso
Dog (I think)?
Definitely not. Flying Dog has all the Stedman drawings on the label
(the
Post by Neil Krueger
guy who illustrates Hunter Thompson books.) Dogfish is bilgewater in
a
Post by Neil Krueger
bottle at $10 a sixpack.
I'll confess I only had the 60 minutes IPA, but it was fantastic.
Maybe the other stuff isn't good, I have no idea.
Greg Sasso
2004-08-05 18:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like
to drink
Post by Neil Krueger
Post by Ken Fortenberry
Post by Neil Krueger
warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What
a bunch of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is
considered one of the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the
world.
If you want to see a yuppie homebrew beer snob backpedal at the
speed of sound offer this challenge, brew up your best pilsner
lager and we'll do a blind taste test with your effort and a
Budweiser from the St. Louis brewery. To a man they'll hem and
haw and prattle on about walk-in refrigerators but I have yet to
meet A SINGLE ONE who will take that challenge.
Some of you don't get Bud from St. Louis. That's a pity and I've
had some swill brewed in Florida and some from the LaBatts brewery
in Canada that was labelled Budweiser but was damn near donkey
piss, HOWEVER the Budweiser brewed in St. Louis, Missouri is a
damn good pilsner lager and any friggin' yuppie homebrew beer
snob who tells you different is a nitwit.
d00d, I grew up in Chicago with Budweiser everywhere. There is
absolutely
Post by Neil Krueger
no comparison between Bud and Pilsner Urquell. Get yourself a
Pilsner
Post by Neil Krueger
Urquell and taste a GOOD pilsner for the first time.
HRYK

Budvar would work pretty well too, but I don't know how it tastes in
the U.S.
MDZamboni
2004-08-05 21:01:54 UTC
Permalink
not sure who wrote it but <<for your information Budweiser is considered one of
the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the world>>

Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce!
ba ba booie
2004-08-06 03:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Traditional beer claims comeback as tastes change.


ba ba booie wrote:
I like a good cold beer.


Neil Krueger wrote:
I love a good cold beer, too. But these folks who run CAMRA like to
drink warm, flat beer in the British style. It's disgusting.


bbb wrote:
I don't know about that kind of beer.
I have never tried it.


Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I've been reading this beer snobbery with great amusement. What a bunch
of yuppie nitwits. For your information Budweiser is considered one of
the finest beers OF ITS STYLE brewed in the world.


***@hotmail.comspamsucks (Andrew=A0Murawa)
And that style sucks ass...


bbb wrote:
He's right you know!


DG <***@xxx.xxx> wrote:
That style is great on a hot day when it's ice cold.


bbb wrote:
He's right you know!!


***@comcastDOTnet
(JimK)
Yeah, but so is almost anything that's wet..

bbb wrote:
He's right you know!!!


Ken Fortenberry at ***@ameritech.net.invalid
That's crap. Budweiser is good beer. Millions of people drink it and
enjoy it. You can say it's a style of beer you don't like, you can say
it's not your taste in beer, but you cannot say it's not good beer or
that it's not "real beer." Budweiser is "real beer" and it's a damn good
beer, anybody who tells you different is a friggin' nitwit. I'm drinking
one right now.

bbb wrote:
He"s right you know!!!!


***@comcast.net
(Neil=A0Krueger) wrote:
If you like beer with no taste, more power to you. I like water with no
taste, so I can relate.

Billions of people have eaten Big Macs, but that doesn't mean it's a
high quality


He's right you know!!!!!



Can I pick @ this for a bit?
Some people like their beers and some people love their beers. Some like
it for many different reasons. I know some peope HAVE no choice to buy
lesser quality beer. I remember touring with The Grateful Dead and we
used to want to buy beer for resale and our own consumption and these
drive through beer stores had a lesser quaity beer selection. Some in
the rural areas don't have much of a choice unless they mail away for
it.

If our are brought up on the Millwaukee's & the Reingold's and the
Schlitz's and the Budwiser then you might not know about the other beers
out there.

Hell, I just had a Malt liuquer beer?
Is that a beer?
What ever that was,
THAT TASTED LIKE SHIT!!!
I figured I would try it cause a friend of mine gave me a couple of
bottles and I tried 1/2 of one and it tasted really, really bad. I threw
out the *Other ones*
What is that stuff? And who drinks it?


Ken Fortenberry wrote:
That's crap. Budweiser is good beer.


bbb wrote:
To some people it is.


Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Millions of people drink it and enjoy it.


bbb wrote:
do you believe it, I can't. Maybe they don't know that there are other
beers out there? Maybe they just don't give a damn.


Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You can say it's a style of beer you don't like, you can say it's not
your taste in beer, but you cannot say it's not good beer or that it's
not "real beer.

bbb wrote:
Oh it's real beer. It's enough to fuck you up! I love bud out of the KEG
and the long neck bottles. I rember back in the high school days when we
had KEG parties (Budwiser) after the KEG was done, we take it in the
street and play catch with it. Some times you would catch it and some
times you wouldn't. Those were the daze.....

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
" Budweiser is "real beer" and it's a damn good beer, anybody who tells
you different is a friggin' nitwit. I'm drinking one right now.


bbb wrote: I will tell you this about Budwiser. I would drink that beer
over Michelob, Heiniken, Black Label, Milwaukee, Blue Stripe, Schlitz
and Reingold and so on (if I had to). Budwiser is the king of those kind
of beers.
Not of all beers!!!
King of all rotgut beers maybe isted above. If I am at a party and there
is a KEG of Budwiser there, then I guess I would HAVE TO drink it. Not
as much though if I was drinking other beers.
Ah who am I kidding, give me another one outta that keg.


Neil came up with a great analogy below.


***@comcast.net
(Neil=A0Krueger) wrote:
If you like beer with no taste,
more power to you.
I like water with no taste,
so I can relate.

Billions of people have eaten Big Macs, but that doesn't mean it's a
high quality


That is true,
they don't make a better burger.
They make a quick, cheap tired out burger. The better burgers are at
White Castle ; ) http://www.ulti.com/wc/


Mickey D's are the Budwiser of burgers. Some people love Mc Donalds and
some people will not eat there.
But some will, ***if they have to***.

I don't eat burgers. But I do eat the fish.
I like Real fish. Mickey D's fish is the same since they started it way
back when. I like Burger Kings's fish better for fast food.

Some people like some beers & some people like other types of beers.
Some people love SUBWOOFERS and some people don't.
And if some people never taste it or hear it, weather it be beer,
SUBWOOFERS, women, burgers, buds, fish, music, chocoletes or what ever,
then you will never know the different tastes or sounds that are out
there.
Simply put!
I could be wrong though?
I don't think so.

I know for a fact that when I'm at these shows for *The Dead* soon and I
see a cooler of beer in the lot with Budwiser, Corona, Samuel Adams,
Samuel Smiths or Heiniken I will reach for reach for the Smiths first
then the Adams, Probably both : ) Some beers are just better than
others. It just has to be.
This is what makes this life so wonderful.
As long as it is done responsibly.

Some people love their beer.

And some people just don't give a damn!

Beer can get envolved, can't it?


booie.......

.
.
.
Have you checked these sites out today?
http://www.jambase.com
http://www.jambands.com
http://www.jambase.com/festivals
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?day=3Dtoday&dispall
.

Find out where your favorite band is playing.
http://www.pollstar.com/news/viewlist.cgi?ListID=3D682
Neil Krueger
2004-08-06 04:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Beer can get involved, can't it?
booie.......
Great post, booie. Very amusing. :)

Peace,
Neil X.
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