Discussion:
Worlds Best Beer
(too old to reply)
sweetbac
2012-05-20 18:44:34 UTC
Permalink
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
yoker
2012-05-20 21:52:02 UTC
Permalink
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
RUSSIAN RIVER ALE NAMED WORLD'S BEST BEER

By JEREMY HAY
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Friday, May 18, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, May 18, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.

Q: What is strong and comes in small portions only, is available in
just a few locations, and requires a wait in long lines after many
months?


Oh, and you can't buy it now and won't be able to for nearly a year.

If you're a beer lover you likely already know.

The answer is: The world's best beer.

This year, according to BeerAdvocate, it is Pliny the Younger, the
Russian River Brewing Co.'s wunderkind craft brew.

The ultra-hoppy, limited edition Triple India Pale Ale is released
once a year and sells out in a couple of weeks. The release in
February drew hundreds of fans to Santa Rosa from around the country
and beyond.

“It's a magnificent beer,” said Ken Weaver, a beer writer and author
of the “The Northern California Craft Beer Guide.”

At the brewery's Fourth Street pub, manager and bartender Gabe Rivera
was pleased but took the news in stride.

“This is, what, the third year,” he said.

It's the fourth, actually.

BeerAdvocate is a website for beer lovers that aims, among other
things, to “wake the masses to better beer options.”

Its rankings are determined by a system that breaks down and analyzes
the beer reviews posted by people who use the site.

At the brewery's south Santa Rosa headquarters, co-owner Natalie
Cilurzo said, “We are totally flattered and honored.”

And, she said, the world's best beer is, in a manner of speaking, in
the world's best company.

“It's amazing because there are so many other craft brews out there
that are amazing and as good as Pliny the Younger, maybe better,” she
said.

That, said Weaver, is the clear-eyed way to look at the honor.

“There's no such thing as the worlds best beer,” he said. “It beat out
everything” on BeerAdvocate “and that is what it is, and that is
magnificent.”

Then there's how CJ Fields, 25, of Petaluma, sees Pliny the Younger.

“Its the holy grail of beer that I'm trying to chase down,” she said.

===========================

As the article reads: "There's no such thing as the world's best
beer ... it beat out everything"
But sure looks very tasty to have a nice cold one right about now.

Thanks!
Randy G
2012-05-21 00:35:29 UTC
Permalink
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Anyone who hates hops would think it is one of the worst beers they
ever had. How bold to call a beer 'the best in the world'.
Plus one that is so hard to get at that.
Neil X.
2012-05-21 03:19:43 UTC
Permalink
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
<Rolls Eyes>

Trendy is as trendy does. There are Pliny of other stellar high
alcohol content IPAs out there. Don't get me wrong, I have immense
respect for Russian River Brewing. I do believe I have described it
as the best brewpub I've ever visited. But the Cult of Personality
around the Younger is ridiculous. Beyond silly.

Peace,
Neil X.
frndthdevl
2012-05-21 16:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
<Rolls Eyes>
Trendy is as trendy does.
YEah that is Dave! <stares>
I asked him for a review of this beer 3 years ago!
OF course I did not offer to pay, as I did once for tickets and beer
for him for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Independant. I think he was
waxing his llamas. Now because he reads something about a beer? LOL
The longest line I ever waited for Younger was about 45 minutes.
However after the first releases,stealth kegs start to show. Fun beer,
a bit over rated imo. Follow that twat, er tweet. Didn't feel a need
last year for the circus. However Younger certainly does not suit the
desired profile for most around here, high ABV and loaded with hops.
I'll take the Alpine Exponential,Younger like for about half the
price. Now perhaps Dave will Grace us with a review of some Russian
River ION beers.
Guiness was a great beer once,before I discovered real dark beer. Now
it is like water,for me anyway.
Brad Greer
2012-05-21 22:23:43 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 May 2012 09:30:49 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Neil X.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
<Rolls Eyes>
Trendy is as trendy does.
YEah that is Dave! <stares>
I asked him for a review of this beer 3 years ago!
OF course I did not offer to pay, as I did once for tickets and beer
for him for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Independant. I think he was
waxing his llamas. Now because he reads something about a beer? LOL
The longest line I ever waited for Younger was about 45 minutes.
However after the first releases,stealth kegs start to show. Fun beer,
a bit over rated imo. Follow that twat, er tweet. Didn't feel a need
last year for the circus. However Younger certainly does not suit the
desired profile for most around here, high ABV and loaded with hops.
What makes you think most around here don't like high ABV hoppy beers?
Plenty of us like good, strong IPAs.

I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer." It's
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops. The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good . Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well. But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
Post by frndthdevl
I'll take the Alpine Exponential,Younger like for about half the
price. Now perhaps Dave will Grace us with a review of some Russian
River ION beers.
Guiness was a great beer once,before I discovered real dark beer. Now
it is like water,for me anyway.
Nah, Guinness is still a great beer, you just don't like it any more.
There are times when a well poured Guinness is just exactly perfect.
frndthdevl
2012-05-21 22:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
On Mon, 21 May 2012 09:30:49 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Neil X.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
<Rolls Eyes>
Trendy is as trendy does.
YEah that is Dave! <stares>
I asked him for a review of this beer 3 years ago!
OF course I did not offer to pay, as I did once for tickets and beer
for him for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Independant. I think he was
waxing his llamas.  Now because he reads something about a beer? LOL
The longest line I ever waited for Younger was about 45 minutes.
However after the first releases,stealth kegs start to show. Fun beer,
a bit over rated imo.  Follow that twat, er tweet. Didn't feel a need
last year for the circus. However Younger certainly does not suit the
desired profile for most around here, high ABV and loaded with hops.
What makes you think most around here don't like high ABV hoppy beers?
Plenty of us like good, strong IPAs.
Yes, you have professed your love of hops.
Post by Brad Greer
I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer."
I do take issue with those who think if it has lots of hops and an ABV
that it must not be a "really good beer."



It's
Post by Brad Greer
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops.  The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good .  Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well.  But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
I think you are wrong. An outside of you , Andrew, Dr. Narc,Randy,
there has been strong sentiment, mostly against, regarding high ABV
hoppy beers. NTTIAWWT
Brad Greer
2012-05-22 00:53:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Brad Greer
I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer."
I do take issue with those who think if it has lots of hops and an ABV
that it must not be a "really good beer."
Well, that's just silly.
Post by frndthdevl
It's
Post by Brad Greer
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops.  The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good .  Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well.  But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
I think you are wrong. An outside of you , Andrew, Dr. Narc,Randy,
there has been strong sentiment, mostly against, regarding high ABV
hoppy beers. NTTIAWWT
Other than Sweets and Ken, who else has expressed that view?
frndthdevl
2012-05-22 02:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
I do take issue with those who think if it has lots of hops and an ABV
that it must not be a "really good beer."
Well, that's just silly.
Rather,"it can't be a really good beer". You are correct,not every
overly hoppy high ABV is the best beer, until about the third.
Brad Greer
2012-05-22 02:51:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 May 2012 19:38:10 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Brad Greer
On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
I do take issue with those who think if it has lots of hops and an ABV
that it must not be a "really good beer."
Well, that's just silly.
Rather,"it can't be a really good beer". You are correct,not every
overly hoppy high ABV is the best beer, until about the third.
Nah, I've had strong, hoppy beers that were lousy even after the
third. I just cared less that they weren't very good.
dr.narcolepsy
2012-05-22 03:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Brad Greer
On Mon, 21 May 2012 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
I do take issue with those who think if it has lots of hops and an ABV
that it must not be a "really good beer."
Well, that's just silly.
Rather,"it can't be a really good beer". You are correct,not every
overly hoppy high ABV is the best beer, until about the third.
Ha!
dr.narcolepsy
2012-05-22 03:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
On Mon, 21 May 2012 09:30:49 -0700 (PDT), frndthdevl
Post by frndthdevl
Post by Neil X.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
<Rolls Eyes>
Trendy is as trendy does.
YEah that is Dave! <stares>
I asked him for a review of this beer 3 years ago!
OF course I did not offer to pay, as I did once for tickets and beer
for him for JJ Grey and Mofro at the Independant. I think he was
waxing his llamas. Now because he reads something about a beer? LOL
The longest line I ever waited for Younger was about 45 minutes.
However after the first releases,stealth kegs start to show. Fun beer,
a bit over rated imo. Follow that twat, er tweet. Didn't feel a need
last year for the circus. However Younger certainly does not suit the
desired profile for most around here, high ABV and loaded with hops.
What makes you think most around here don't like high ABV hoppy beers?
Plenty of us like good, strong IPAs.
I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer." It's
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops. The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good . Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well. But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
Post by frndthdevl
I'll take the Alpine Exponential,Younger like for about half the
price. Now perhaps Dave will Grace us with a review of some Russian
River ION beers.
Guiness was a great beer once,before I discovered real dark beer. Now
it is like water,for me anyway.
Nah, Guinness is still a great beer, you just don't like it any more.
There are times when a well poured Guinness is just exactly perfect.
Yeah, just because there's a craze for way-hopped, higher alcohol ales,
now, doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of great hoppy, higher alcohol
ales to drink. IPAs and their cousins are still my favorite beers to drink,
and the occasional case of hefe is all I need to keep things perfect.

Sometimes we take this awesome explosion of American made beer styles for
granted, I think. When I was discovering Sierra Nevada, Anchor, Arrowhead
(RIP), and Stoudt's, twenty years ago, the current beer reality was truly
beyond my wildest beer dreams.
Neil X.
2012-05-22 03:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer."  It's
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops.  The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good .  Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well.  But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
You're right, you know.

My favorite bottled IPA right now is Lagunitas. And the Boston Beer
Works has a really excellent British style IPA available right now
(lower alcohol content than American IPAs, and all British hops, so a
bit less bitter) called Ploughmans Ale. It is excellent as well. I
love the Stone IPA too. Very tradtiional SoCal in-your-face hops.
But executed at a very high level.
Post by Brad Greer
Nah, Guinness is still a great beer, you just don't like it any more.
There are times when a well poured Guinness is just exactly perfect.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Neil X.
2012-05-22 03:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
...let me finish this sentence:

Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner. Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.

Peace,
Neil X.
Randy G
2012-05-22 13:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
I disagree, Guinness is the classic example for a dry stout - and BJCP
uses it as the best commercial example. There are many stouts - Dry,
Sweet, Oatmeal, Foreign Extra, American, Imperial.

BJCP description:
13A. Dry Stout
Aroma: Coffee-like roasted barley and roasted malt aromas are
prominent; may have slight chocolate, cocoa and/or grainy secondary
notes. Esters medium-low to none. No diacetyl. Hop aroma low to none.

Appearance: Jet black to deep brown with garnet highlights in color.
Can be opaque (if not, it should be clear). A thick, creamy, long-
lasting, tan- to brown-colored head is characteristic.

Flavor: Moderate roasted, grainy sharpness, optionally with light to
moderate acidic sourness, and medium to high hop bitterness. Dry,
coffee-like finish from roasted grains. May have a bittersweet or
unsweetened chocolate character in the palate, lasting into the
finish. Balancing factors may include some creaminess, medium-low to
no fruitiness, and medium to no hop flavor. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium-full body, with a creamy character.
Low to moderate carbonation. For the high hop bitterness and
significant proportion of dark grains present, this beer is remarkably
smooth. The perception of body can be affected by the overall gravity
with smaller beers being lighter in body. May have a light astringency
from the roasted grains, although harshness is undesirable.

Overall Impression: A very dark, roasty, bitter, creamy ale.

Comments: This is the draught version of what is otherwise known as
Irish stout or Irish dry stout. Bottled versions are typically brewed
from a significantly higher OG and may be designated as foreign extra
stouts (if sufficiently strong). While most commercial versions rely
primarily on roasted barley as the dark grain, others use chocolate
malt, black malt or combinations of the three. The level of bitterness
is somewhat variable, as is the roasted character and the dryness of
the finish; allow for interpretation by brewers.

History: The style evolved from attempts to capitalize on the success
of London porters, but originally reflected a fuller, creamier, more
“stout” body and strength. When a brewery offered a stout and a
porter, the stout was always the stronger beer (it was originally
called a “Stout Porter”). Modern versions are brewed from a lower OG
and no longer reflect a higher strength than porters.

Ingredients: The dryness comes from the use of roasted unmalted barley
in addition to pale malt, moderate to high hop bitterness, and good
attenuation. Flaked unmalted barley may also be used to add
creaminess. A small percentage (perhaps 3%) of soured beer is
sometimes added for complexity (generally by Guinness only). Water
typically has moderate carbonate hardness, although high levels will
not give the classic dry finish.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.036 – 1.050
IBUs: 30 – 45 FG: 1.007 – 1.011
SRM: 25 – 40 ABV: 4 – 5%

Commercial Examples: Guinness Draught Stout (also canned), Murphy's
Stout, Beamish Stout, O’Hara’s Celtic Stout, Russian River O.V.L.
Stout, Three Floyd’s Black Sun Stout, Dorothy Goodbody’s Wholesome
Stout, Orkney Dragonhead Stout, Old Dominion Stout, Goose Island
Dublin Stout, Brooklyn Dry Stout
DanPopp
2012-05-22 14:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner. Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
sweetbac
2012-05-23 01:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Guinness is delicious
Of course it is...Jeez...Now I gotta come on a Grateful Dead
chatgroup and defend Guinness Stout?
Whats WRONG with you freaks?
Amazing.
Neil X.
2012-05-23 03:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
Now I gotta come on a Grateful Dead
chatgroup and defend Guinness Stout?
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
brewed a few miles north of you:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412

Now THAT'S a stout. Those boys at North Coast know whassup.

Peace,
Neil X.
Ray
2012-05-23 03:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by sweetbac
Now I gotta come on a Grateful Dead
chatgroup and defend Guinness Stout?
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.  Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
I've had Old Rasputin - as with North Coast Brew Co. more generally I
am a fan.

I still prefer Guinness, though I will cede to your superior knowledge
(amongst my friends you are probably the most knowledgeable about
beers) that Old Rasputin is the more representative "stout".
Randy G
2012-05-23 13:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by Neil X.
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.  Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
I've had Old Rasputin - as with North Coast Brew Co. more generally I
am a fan.
I still prefer Guinness, though I will cede to your superior knowledge
(amongst my friends you are probably the most knowledgeable about
beers) that Old Rasputin is the more representative "stout".
Its comparing apples to oranges. Both are perfect representatives for
their styles. I would never enter an imperial stout (Old Rasputin) in
a dry stout (Guinness) category, or vice versa. If you can ever get
Old Rasputin on nitro, or better yet, barrel aged, it is a real treat.
That's like wanting a Czech Pilsner and getting a Dopplebock instead.
frndthdevl
2012-05-23 16:15:33 UTC
Permalink
On May 23, 6:33 am, Randy G <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would never enter an imperial stout (Old Rasputin) in
Post by Randy G
a dry stout (Guinness) category, or vice versa. If you can ever get
Old Rasputin on nitro, or better yet, barrel aged, it is a real treat.
As good as the 2007 AleSmith Speedway Stout Bottle# 319 of 474?
Or the Stone 2008 RIS?
How about the 2008 Bourbon COunty Stout?
Randy G
2012-05-23 16:49:35 UTC
Permalink
 I would never enter an imperial stout (Old Rasputin) in
Post by Randy G
a dry stout (Guinness) category, or vice versa. If you can ever get
Old Rasputin on nitro, or better yet, barrel aged, it is a real treat.
As good as the 2007  AleSmith Speedway Stout Bottle# 319 of 474?
Or the Stone 2008 RIS?
How about the 2008 Bourbon COunty Stout?
I think I need to do another side by side comparison :)
frndthdevl
2012-05-23 16:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy G
Post by Ray
Post by Neil X.
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.  Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
I've had Old Rasputin - as with North Coast Brew Co. more generally I
am a fan.
I still prefer Guinness, though I will cede to your superior knowledge
(amongst my friends you are probably the most knowledgeable about
beers) that Old Rasputin is the more representative "stout".
Its comparing apples to oranges. Both are perfect representatives for
their styles. I would never enter an imperial stout (Old Rasputin) in
a dry stout (Guinness) category, or vice versa. If you can ever get
Old Rasputin on nitro, or better yet, barrel aged, it is a real treat.
That's like wanting a Czech Pilsner and getting a Dopplebock instead.
Ray
2012-05-23 16:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy G
Post by Ray
Post by Neil X.
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.  Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
I've had Old Rasputin - as with North Coast Brew Co. more generally I
am a fan.
I still prefer Guinness, though I will cede to your superior knowledge
(amongst my friends you are probably the most knowledgeable about
beers) that Old Rasputin is the more representative "stout".
Its comparing apples to oranges. Both are perfect representatives for
their styles. I would never enter an imperial stout (Old Rasputin) in
a dry stout (Guinness) category, or vice versa. If you can ever get
Old Rasputin on nitro, or better yet, barrel aged, it is a real treat.
That's like wanting a Czech Pilsner and getting a Dopplebock instead.
I've had Old Rasputin on tap at their brewery in Ft. Bragg - damn
tasty.
Neil X.
2012-05-23 15:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by Neil X.
Post by sweetbac
Now I gotta come on a Grateful Dead
chatgroup and defend Guinness Stout?
Forget about that thin stout wannabe and grab a beer with balls,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.  Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
I've had Old Rasputin - as with North Coast Brew Co. more generally I
am a fan.
I still prefer Guinness, though I will cede to your superior knowledge
(amongst my friends you are probably the most knowledgeable about
beers) that Old Rasputin is the more representative "stout".
Well, it's a different style of stout--Imperial versus Irish Dry.
Imperial stout is to Dry stout as IPA is to Pilsner, it's much
stronger, much darker and much hoppier. Imperial is what I want in a
stout. But I wouldn't say that Old Raz is more "representative" of
stouts than dry stouts. I just don't much like dry stouts. Weak
sauce, as Mruawa might say.

Peace,
Neil x.
sweetbac
2012-05-24 15:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.
Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
Peace,
Neil X.
9%....Oy.
I had they Scrimshaw 2 nites ago...and their Blue
Star wheat is always in rotation around here.
Now stop all this frontin' X!!....you have HOW many
cases of Sam Adams cream stout in the basement?
ANYways...when you hitting SF, baby?
Neil X.
2012-05-24 15:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
Post by Neil X.
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/112/412
Now THAT'S a stout.
Those boys at North Coast know whassup.
Peace,
Neil X.
9%....Oy.
I had they Scrimshaw 2 nites ago...and their Blue
Star wheat is always in rotation around here.
Now stop all this frontin' X!!....you have HOW many
cases of Sam Adams cream stout in the basement?
ANYways...when you hitting SF, baby?
I do have some Sam Adams Lager in the frig now, that and the Noble
Pils are excellent. Not a fan of any of their heavier beers, though,
or really, any of their ales, either. They really know how to lager,
but they don't seem to get it with the ale yeasts.

Don't think a trip to the Bay Area is going to happen. I decided to
send a project leader, who will present the poster.

Peace,
Neil X.
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-24 20:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
I do have some Sam Adams Lager in the frig now, that and the Noble
Pils are excellent. Not a fan of any of their heavier beers, though,
or really, any of their ales, either. They really know how to lager,
but they don't seem to get it with the ale yeasts.
I was not as excited about the Sam Adams Pils as you are, it was good but not stellar. But, I also was not a big fan of the Trader Joe's/Joseph Brau (Gordon Biersch) pilsner the first time I tried that. Last week it I gave it another try and this time I thought it was much better, very good but still short of an excellent pils. I think there is variability batch-to-batch and year to year. It looks like I will not get to give SA Pils another shot since it seems to have been replaced by the SA Summer Ale.
I had a chance to try a SA Summer Ale a few weeks back. I probably would not have bought it on my own, but I was at a reception and it was that or some major label swill. My take on SA Summer Ale... nondescript. I can't think of a single memorable thing about it. I guess the "grains of paradise" it there to cover up any trace of richness, maltiness or hoppiness. It is right there with Guinness Black Lager in the category of new beers I will not pay money for.
Neil X.
2012-05-25 02:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Neil X.
I do have some Sam Adams Lager in the frig now, that and the Noble
Pils are excellent.  Not a fan of any of their heavier beers, though,
or really, any of their ales, either.  They really know how to lager,
but they don't seem to get it with the ale yeasts.
I was not as excited about the Sam Adams Pils as you are, it was good but not stellar. But, I also was not a big fan of the Trader Joe's/Joseph Brau (Gordon Biersch) pilsner the first time I tried that. Last week it I gave it another try and this time I thought it was much better, very good but still short of an excellent pils. I think there is variability batch-to-batch and year to year. It looks like I will not get to give SA Pils another shot since it seems to have been replaced by the SA Summer Ale.
I had a chance to try a SA Summer Ale a few weeks back. I probably would not have bought it on my own, but I was at a reception and it was that or some major label swill. My take on SA Summer Ale... nondescript. I can't think of a single memorable thing about it. I guess the "grains of paradise" it there to cover up any trace of richness, maltiness or hoppiness. It is right there with Guinness Black Lager in the category of new beers I will not pay money for.
I think the Joseph Brau Pilsner varies from batch to batch. I've had
some that was flavorful, and others that were really boring.

The Bierch product at Trader Joe's that's really good is the Golden
Bock. It's an excellent version of a Helles Bock. If you know your
brewing history, you know that the first beer Gordon Bierch ever
brewed was their Golden Bock, and for years it was their flagship
beer. For whatever reason, they took it out of rotation in the
brewpubs, but they still make it for TJs. Well worth the $6 for a
sixpack.

As for Sam's Noble Pils, I don't put it in the same category as
Lagunitas or Victory, (or Urquell, the gold standard for Pils) but
there are so few really high quality American Pils out there. It's a
solid Pils with the appropriate Noble Hops signature and nice
maltiness. You probably WILL be able to try it again if you wish,
it's still out there. Indeed, they're making a lot more of the Summer
Ale (not very good, BTW), but they are still making the Noble Pils in
smaller batches for a while longer.

I tend to agree about the SN Summer Lager. Not in the same class of
any of these Pilsners we've been talking about. Nondescript.

Peace,
Neil X.
sweetbac
2012-05-27 00:56:20 UTC
Permalink
I decided to send a project leader, who will ....
Peace,
Neil Ecks.
The Nantucket Nitwit?
What ever happened to that fool?
ANYways...good luck wit dat.
otter
2012-05-23 00:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right? I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
Brad Greer
2012-05-24 10:43:39 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right? I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
otter
2012-05-24 12:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]

The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]

...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
Brad Greer
2012-05-25 01:14:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
DanPopp
2012-05-25 16:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
They still call it porter.
Post by Brad Greer
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
Many still call it porter.
Brad Greer
2012-05-25 21:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by Brad Greer
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner.  Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right?  I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout. As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
They still call it porter.
Not in any of their marketing materials. And if they did it would be
incorrect - stout is a fully recognized beer style, has been for well
over 100 years and is distinctly different than porter. Feel free to
call it a porter if you wish, it will remain a stout.
Neil X.
2012-05-26 04:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by Brad Greer
On Thu, 24 May 2012 05:52:06 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by otter
Post by Brad Greer
On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:41:32 -0700 (PDT), otter
Post by DanPopp
Post by Neil X.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Guinness is no better an example of a stou
Guinness is very little better as an example of a stout as Budweiser
is a good example of a Pilsner. Both are far from what they are
supposed to be.
Peace,
Neil X.
You and Ken F should get together for a Bud/Guinness drinking session. Guinness is delicious and for some reason is does seem to taste better in Eire.(probably just the surroundings) I believe that it has changed over the last 30 years and many Irishmen agree with me. (and some dont) I was in Dublin last week (my 57th trip) and I think Guinness has gotten lighter. Thirty years ago you could never see through the glass but now you can. I dont know the history of stout and can't be bothered to look it up but it tastes all right by me.
Guinness is a porter, right? I keep thinking of what happened to the
bucket of porter in Ulysses.
No, it's a stout.
But originally called a porter...
The Guinness of today is a stout.  As others have said in this thread
it is considered by many to be the definitive dry stout.
Post by otter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness
Arthur Guinness started selling the dark beer porter in 1778.[9] The
first Guinness beers to use the term were Single Stout and Double
Stout in the 1840s.[10] Throughout the bulk of its history, Guinness
produced 'only three variations of a single beer type: porter or
single stout, double or extra and foreign stout for export'.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_%28beer%29
Porter is a dark style of beer originating in London in the 18th
Century, [1] descended from brown beer, a well hopped beer made from
brown malt.[2] The name came about as a result of its popularity with
street and river porters.[3]
The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[4]
The name "stout" for a dark beer is believed to have come about
because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double
Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be
shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was
originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name
Extra Stout in 1840.[5]
...
There can be no doubt who would have made the beer Joyce referred to
as "porter" in Ulysses.
I think there can be doubt - Joyce wasn't alive when Guinness was
calling it "porter", by the time Ulysses was written Guinness was
definitely known as a stout.
They still call it porter.
Not in any of their marketing materials.  And if they did it would be
incorrect - stout is a fully recognized beer style, has been for well
over 100 years and is distinctly different than porter.  Feel free to
call it a porter if you wish, it will remain a stout.
You give Guinness to an unbiased knowledgeable blind tasting panel,
most folks identify it as a stout, I'd allege.

Peace,
Neil X.
Ray
2012-05-22 18:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by Brad Greer
I do take issue with a trend in the craft brewing scene to confuse
"lots of alcohol and hops" with "must be a really good beer."  It's
easy to make a high ABV beer with lots of hops.  The trick is making
such a beer that tastes good .  Some brewers do this very well, some
not so well.  But I don't think too many people here are opposed to a
well done high ABV hoppy beer.
You're right, you know.
My favorite bottled IPA right now is Lagunitas.  And the Boston Beer
Works has a really excellent British style IPA available right now
(lower alcohol content than American IPAs, and all British hops, so a
bit less bitter) called Ploughmans Ale.  It is excellent as well.  I
love the Stone IPA too.  Very tradtiional SoCal in-your-face hops.
But executed at a very high level.
Post by Brad Greer
Nah, Guinness is still a great beer, you just don't like it any more.
There are times when a well poured Guinness is just exactly perfect.
You're right, you know.
Post by Neil X.
Yeah, it's been a decade at least since it was that time for me.
Saturday night was the most recent time for me, and innumerable times
before then.

I'm surprised you're not a fan, Neil - for the most part we share
similar tastes in beer and tequila. Speaking of I agree with you
about Lagunitas IPA, which as been my favorite bottled IPA for several
years running.
DanPopp
2012-05-21 13:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
Guinness.
gringo
2012-05-21 14:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
Guinness.
My vote is anything from Fantome or De Dolle.

Kurt
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-21 15:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
Guinness.
What is your definition of the word beer?
Ray
2012-05-21 19:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.

I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser. When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
frndthdevl
2012-05-21 20:16:40 UTC
Permalink
frndthdevl View profile One of the best beers around was released
at RR yesterday. It sold out in hours. Down here in SD we will see it
next week. Small glasses for a high price. Appears some is now for
sale on Craigslist for 125 bucks and more a growler. Not sure it is
that good. Did the local Santa Rosa resident get any at what was a zoo
yesterday? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=1&subAreaID=&query=pliny&c...
More options Feb 6 2010, 2:49 pm

Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: frndthdevl <***@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:49:03 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Feb 6 2010 2:49 pm
Subject: Pliny The Younger
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original
| Remove | Report this message | Find messages by this author
One of the best beers around was released at RR yesterday. It sold
out
in hours. Down here in SD we will see it next week. Small glasses for
a high price. Appears some is now for sale on Craigslist for 125
bucks
and more a growler. Not sure it is that good. Did the local Santa
Rosa
resident get any at what was a zoo yesterday?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=1&subAreaID=&query=pliny&c...
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-21 21:45:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser. When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
Brad Greer
2012-05-21 22:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser. When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly? It has water, barley malt yeast and hops. I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-21 23:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser. When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly? It has water, barley malt yeast and hops. I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer

1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation

If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.

I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
Randy G
2012-05-21 23:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser.  When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly?  It has water, barley malt yeast and hops.  I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer
1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation
If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.
I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.

That must have been cool meeting Charlie, his book was what got me
brewing. Although his first edition was badly outdated and needed
updating.
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-22 00:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy G
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser.  When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly?  It has water, barley malt yeast and hops.  I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer
1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation
If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.
I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.
That must have been cool meeting Charlie, his book was what got me
brewing. Although his first edition was badly outdated and needed
updating.
Ok so my information appears to be dated. At the time I was told that they did not
Post by Randy G
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser.  When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly?  It has water, barley malt yeast and hops.  I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer
1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation
If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.
I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.
That must have been cool meeting Charlie, his book was what got me
brewing. Although his first edition was badly outdated and needed
updating.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser.  When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly?  It has water, barley malt yeast and hops.  I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer
1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation
If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.
I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.
Ok so my the information I got is dated or wrong to begin with. Guinness does appear to use malt in their process. I stand corrected. I don't think that the process most malt makers use is quite as strictly timed as the one Charlie described for Guinness.
Randy G
2012-05-22 00:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy G
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill.
OK, black patent for Guinness. But a lot of stouts have roast barley
too.
b***@hotmail.com
2012-05-22 00:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy G
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.
It depends on where you are in the world as to whether or not the grains you use make it a beer or not. I can't think of any US laws that prohibit a gluten free product using sorghum from being called beer, that's what they call the stuff that AB brews. Most US laws distinguish by alcohol content, and are pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
Randy G
2012-05-22 02:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Randy G
BARLEY MALT. The color comes from roasted barley, which is a small
percentage of the total grain bill. Yes, it is a beer. You can make a
gluten free product using sorghum, then it technically would not be a
beer - but Guinness absolutely is. And an excellent one at that.
And that is typical for making malt - you germinate them until they
just start to sprout, then dry them.
It depends on where you are in the world as to whether or not the grains you use make it a beer or not. I can't think of any US laws that prohibit a gluten free product using sorghum from being called beer, that's what they call the stuff that AB brews. Most US laws distinguish by alcohol content, and are pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
In the US, the FDA allows a sorghum beer to be called a beer, as long
as it clearly labeled as 'Sorghum beer' or 'Beer made from Sorghum'.
But my main point is barley is malt, so Guinness is indeed a beer.
Brad Greer
2012-05-22 00:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Brad Greer
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser. When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
I know I'm picking at nits but it can be argued that technically Guinness Stout is not a beer.
How, exactly? It has water, barley malt yeast and hops. I'm not sure
why you would claim that stout isn't a valid beer style.
It has water, barley, yeast and hops. No malt.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beer
1: an alcoholic beverage usually made from malted cereal grain (as barley), flavored with hops, and brewed by slow fermentation
If you accept this definition then this style of stout (i.e. Guinness) is a fermented grain beverage, not a fermented malt beverage.
I took a class from Charlie Papazian once at his house in Boulder. I remember him telling a story about watching the process Guinness went through to prepare their product for export to Germany. They had a guy laying on a platform just above the malting bed. The minute he saw a few grains germinate he would call a halt and begin the drying and roasting process. I'm not sure if the German laws are still so strict.
Well, if we're going to cite the reinheitsgebot it originally didn't
include yeast (because nobody knew what yeast was when it was
enacted). Also, the original reinheitsgebot only said barley, with no
mention made of roasting it.

In any event it's not binding for the definition of beer.
Neil X.
2012-05-21 22:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Guinness is so many different things........

The Original Guinness is basically just a light beer with some black
patent malt added to it to turn it black. Low hops content, low
alcohol content, it bears little resemblance to a "real" stout. One
of the odd things about Guinness is that it is such a different beer
in different parts of the world. Guinness Original/Extra Stout: 4.2
or 4.3% ABV in Ireland and the rest of Europe, 4.1% in Germany, 4.8%
in Namibia and South Africa), 5% in the United States and Canada, and
6% in Australia and Japan.

On the other hand, the Foreign Extra Stout is pretty good, having
hearty, full, round flavor and the higher alcohol content typical of
stouts. Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: 7.5% ABV version sold in
Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, Asia, and the United States. The basis
is an unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract shipped from
Dublin, which is added to local ingredients and fermented locally. The
strength can vary, for example, it is sold at 5% ABV in China, 6.5%
ABV in Jamaica and East Africa, 6.8% in Malaysia, 7.5% in the United
States, and 8% ABV in Singapore. In Nigeria a proportion of sorghum
is used. Foreign Extra Stout is blended with a small amount of
intentionally soured beer. It was previously known as West Indies
Porter, then Extra Stout and finally Foreign Extra Stout.

Just FYI. (Much of the above pasted from Wiki.)

Peace,
Neil X.
gringo
2012-05-22 13:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by Ray
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Guinness is so many different things........
The Original Guinness is basically just a light beer with some black
patent malt added to it to turn it black. Low hops content, low
alcohol content, it bears little resemblance to a "real" stout. One
of the odd things about Guinness is that it is such a different beer
in different parts of the world. Guinness Original/Extra Stout: 4.2
or 4.3% ABV in Ireland and the rest of Europe, 4.1% in Germany, 4.8%
in Namibia and South Africa), 5% in the United States and Canada, and
6% in Australia and Japan.
On the other hand, the Foreign Extra Stout is pretty good, having
hearty, full, round flavor and the higher alcohol content typical of
stouts. Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: 7.5% ABV version sold in
Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, Asia, and the United States. The basis
is an unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract shipped from
Dublin, which is added to local ingredients and fermented locally. The
strength can vary, for example, it is sold at 5% ABV in China, 6.5%
ABV in Jamaica and East Africa, 6.8% in Malaysia, 7.5% in the United
States, and 8% ABV in Singapore. In Nigeria a proportion of sorghum
is used. Foreign Extra Stout is blended with a small amount of
intentionally soured beer. It was previously known as West Indies
Porter, then Extra Stout and finally Foreign Extra Stout.
Just FYI. (Much of the above pasted from Wiki.)
Peace,
Neil X.
I thought the unique thing about Guinness was that they added a bit of soured beer for tang. That was the difference between Guinness and say Murphys.

Kurt
Randy G
2012-05-22 14:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringo
I thought the unique thing about Guinness was that they added a bit of soured beer for tang. That was the difference between Guinness and say Murphys.
Kurt- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You are correct. See my post above.
Neil X.
2012-05-22 16:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringo
Post by Neil X.
Post by Ray
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Guinness is so many different things........
The Original Guinness is basically just a light beer with some black
patent malt added to it to turn it black.  Low hops content, low
alcohol content, it bears little resemblance to a "real" stout.  One
of the odd things about Guinness is that it is such a different beer
in different parts of the world.  Guinness Original/Extra Stout: 4.2
or 4.3% ABV in Ireland and the rest of Europe, 4.1% in Germany, 4.8%
in Namibia and South Africa), 5% in the United States and Canada, and
6% in Australia and Japan.
On the other hand, the Foreign Extra Stout is pretty good, having
hearty, full, round flavor and the higher alcohol content typical of
stouts.  Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: 7.5% ABV version sold in
Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, Asia, and the United States. The basis
is an unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract shipped from
Dublin, which is added to local ingredients and fermented locally. The
strength can vary, for example, it is sold at 5% ABV in China, 6.5%
ABV in Jamaica and East Africa, 6.8% in Malaysia, 7.5% in the United
States, and 8% ABV in Singapore.  In Nigeria a proportion of sorghum
is used. Foreign Extra Stout is blended with a small amount of
intentionally soured beer. It was previously known as West Indies
Porter, then Extra Stout and finally Foreign Extra Stout.
Just FYI.  (Much of the above pasted from Wiki.)
Peace,
Neil X.
I thought the unique thing about Guinness was that they added a bit of soured beer for tang. That was the difference between Guinness and say Murphys.
That is actually mentioned in the last paragraph in the post you
responded to........

Peace,
Neil X.
gringo
2012-05-22 23:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil X.
Post by gringo
Post by Neil X.
Post by Ray
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Guinness is so many different things........
The Original Guinness is basically just a light beer with some black
patent malt added to it to turn it black.  Low hops content, low
alcohol content, it bears little resemblance to a "real" stout.  One
of the odd things about Guinness is that it is such a different beer
in different parts of the world.  Guinness Original/Extra Stout: 4.2
or 4.3% ABV in Ireland and the rest of Europe, 4.1% in Germany, 4.8%
in Namibia and South Africa), 5% in the United States and Canada, and
6% in Australia and Japan.
On the other hand, the Foreign Extra Stout is pretty good, having
hearty, full, round flavor and the higher alcohol content typical of
stouts.  Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: 7.5% ABV version sold in
Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, Asia, and the United States. The basis
is an unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract shipped from
Dublin, which is added to local ingredients and fermented locally. The
strength can vary, for example, it is sold at 5% ABV in China, 6.5%
ABV in Jamaica and East Africa, 6.8% in Malaysia, 7.5% in the United
States, and 8% ABV in Singapore.  In Nigeria a proportion of sorghum
is used. Foreign Extra Stout is blended with a small amount of
intentionally soured beer. It was previously known as West Indies
Porter, then Extra Stout and finally Foreign Extra Stout.
Just FYI.  (Much of the above pasted from Wiki.)
Peace,
Neil X.
I thought the unique thing about Guinness was that they added a bit of soured beer for tang. That was the difference between Guinness and say Murphys.
That is actually mentioned in the last paragraph in the post you
responded to........
Peace,
Neil X.
yeah... i missed that.
Brad Greer
2012-05-21 22:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
I used to travel to Dublin regularly, the company I worked for at the
time was headquartered there. I've had plenty of Guinness in Dublin
as a result. I'll only speak to the draft version (since it's the
only kind I had in Dublin - I've had various variations in the US,
from the old bottled version to the widget cans and bottles to draft).
The Guinness in Ireland is better than the US version, but not nearly
as much as the Irish will lead you to believe. I could probably tell
the difference between US and Irish Guinness in a taste test, but it
would be close.

That said, there's a great craft brewing culture in Ireland - my first
couple of times over I was psyched for Guinness, after a few trips I
found myself instead drinking a lot of the more obscure Irish craft
brews. If you do make it over be sure to visit one of the Porterhouse
pubs (I believe there are three in Dublin). Great selection of craft
beers to keep you busy.
Ray
2012-05-22 19:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by Ray
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
I used to travel to Dublin regularly, the company I worked for at the
time was headquartered there.  I've had plenty of Guinness in Dublin
as a result.  I'll only speak to the draft version (since it's the
only kind I had in Dublin - I've had various variations in the US,
from the old bottled version to the widget cans and bottles to draft).
The Guinness in Ireland is better than the US version, but not nearly
as much as the Irish will lead you to believe.  I could probably tell
the difference between US and Irish Guinness in a taste test, but it
would be close.
That said, there's a great craft brewing culture in Ireland - my first
couple of times over I was psyched for Guinness, after a few trips I
found myself instead drinking a lot of the more obscure Irish craft
brews.  If you do make it over be sure to visit one of the Porterhouse
pubs (I believe there are three in Dublin).  Great selection of craft
beers to keep you busy.
Thanks for the info - I will make it there someday, and yeah I'll for
sure sample generously from the more obscure local brews too. I think
I'll also need to do some endurance training before going. :-)
Brad Greer
2012-05-22 22:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by Brad Greer
Post by Ray
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
I used to travel to Dublin regularly, the company I worked for at the
time was headquartered there.  I've had plenty of Guinness in Dublin
as a result.  I'll only speak to the draft version (since it's the
only kind I had in Dublin - I've had various variations in the US,
from the old bottled version to the widget cans and bottles to draft).
The Guinness in Ireland is better than the US version, but not nearly
as much as the Irish will lead you to believe.  I could probably tell
the difference between US and Irish Guinness in a taste test, but it
would be close.
That said, there's a great craft brewing culture in Ireland - my first
couple of times over I was psyched for Guinness, after a few trips I
found myself instead drinking a lot of the more obscure Irish craft
brews.  If you do make it over be sure to visit one of the Porterhouse
pubs (I believe there are three in Dublin).  Great selection of craft
beers to keep you busy.
Thanks for the info - I will make it there someday, and yeah I'll for
sure sample generously from the more obscure local brews too. I think
I'll also need to do some endurance training before going. :-)
I arrived once on the morning of the Dublin marathon, the hotel I was
staying at was one of the hotels used by the racers. I've never seen
a more hung over group looking to run 26 miles.
Randy G
2012-05-21 23:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by DanPopp
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Titl...
Guinness.
HYRK.
I'm told Guinness is even better in its native country - while I find
that hard to fathom that alone has Ireland on my "must see" list.
Post by b***@hotmail.com
What is your definition of the word beer?
During a lunch gathering of european beer company CEOs the CEO of
Heineken orders a Heineken. The other CEOs around the table follow
suit and each order beers they produce too until they get to the
Guinness' CEO, who orders a Budweiser.  When the other, shocked CEOs
asked him why he isn't ordering a Guinness he replied, "If the rest of
you aren't having a beer I won't either."
He actually orders a soda....not a Budweiser.
DanPopp
2012-05-25 16:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
DanPopp
2012-05-26 15:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
I should have qualified my reply. I didn't mean to say that Guinness called it a porter, I'm just saying that the man on the street still calls it porter. If you walk into a pub and ask for a porter you'll get a Guinness.
Brad Greer
2012-05-26 17:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
I should have qualified my reply. I didn't mean to say that Guinness called it a porter, I'm just saying that the man on the street still calls it porter. If you walk into a pub and ask for a porter you'll get a Guinness.
Where do you go drinking? I've never heard anyone refer to Guinness
as a porter outside of citing the historical background (stout was
originally "stout porter" before becoming a style in its own right). I
think the man on the street calls it "Guinness Stout" because, well,
that's what it is.
DanPopp
2012-05-26 17:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
I should have qualified my reply. I didn't mean to say that Guinness called it a porter, I'm just saying that the man on the street still calls it porter. If you walk into a pub and ask for a porter you'll get a Guinness.
Where do you go drinking? I've never heard anyone refer to Guinness
as a porter outside of citing the historical background (stout was
originally "stout porter" before becoming a style in its own right). I
think the man on the street calls it "Guinness Stout" because, well,
that's what it is.
I am talking about Ireland.
sweetbac
2012-05-26 19:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
I am talking about Ireland.
I need a drink.
Just Kidding
2012-05-26 23:51:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 May 2012 12:11:38 -0700, "sweetbac"
Post by sweetbac
Post by DanPopp
I am talking about Ireland.
I need a drink.
Go to Ireland. They'll be glad to pour you one.
Brad Greer
2012-05-26 20:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DanPopp
Post by Brad Greer
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
I should have qualified my reply. I didn't mean to say that Guinness called it a porter, I'm just saying that the man on the street still calls it porter. If you walk into a pub and ask for a porter you'll get a Guinness.
Where do you go drinking? I've never heard anyone refer to Guinness
as a porter outside of citing the historical background (stout was
originally "stout porter" before becoming a style in its own right). I
think the man on the street calls it "Guinness Stout" because, well,
that's what it is.
I am talking about Ireland.
I've been to Ireland many times - everyone there that I've met and
every bar I've been to refers to it as Guinness Stout. Including at
the Guinness Brewery.
dr.narcolepsy
2012-05-27 00:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad Greer
Post by DanPopp
Post by Brad Greer
Post by DanPopp
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
I should have qualified my reply. I didn't mean to say that Guinness
called it a porter, I'm just saying that the man on the street still
calls it porter. If you walk into a pub and ask for a porter you'll get a Guinness.
Where do you go drinking? I've never heard anyone refer to Guinness
as a porter outside of citing the historical background (stout was
originally "stout porter" before becoming a style in its own right). I
think the man on the street calls it "Guinness Stout" because, well,
that's what it is.
I am talking about Ireland.
I've been to Ireland many times - everyone there that I've met and
every bar I've been to refers to it as Guinness Stout. Including at
the Guinness Brewery.
No, no - the other part of Ireland.
DanPopp
2012-05-27 16:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweetbac
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120518/ARTICLES/120519488?Title=Elusive-Russian-River-ale-named-world-s-best-beer
Geez man, take my word for it....
yoker
2012-05-27 16:23:13 UTC
Permalink
In my best Ken Fortenberry impression:
Budweiser.

Please do NOT confuse me with Ken Dingleberry or Fartingberry or
whatever his current slandered rec.music.gdead screen handle is these
days.
Just a sarcastic joke about the beer.

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